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 Post subject: Lesson Eight: Q&A
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:26 pm 
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Okay, for the last part in the series, I'll just answer any questions you throw my way. Some have already been submitted.

Gwen: those were excellent questions. I think I've covered them all. The one that may be buried somewhere is that you WILL get your instructions all at the beginning, but you should also check your checkpoint slips as those many contain instructions as well.

Bowie Jr: in my hypothetical example, I posed a scenario. The instruction says Turn and you come to a T. What do you do. Hopefully I've given you some reasons why you would go right or left in that case, but chances are until you saw the intersection you probably wouldn't know what applied. But I can say this: if you encounter this situation in this rally, there is SOMETHING in the rules that I've stated that would concretely tell you which way was the correct way to go, OR, you are lost and off-course! Both scenarios you mentioned are certainly true: sometimes there is an overriding rule in the generals that might give you guidance as to what to do, such as "if no other instruction, right at T". These are called Main Road Determinants (MRDs) and are usually listed in priority order, and in heavily trapped rallies they change over the course of the rally! In your dad's rally he calls them Course Following Rules and work pretty much the same (except they don't change, and they are very simple). Your other solution to the problem is equally valid. If the T really had an unpaved road going left and paved to the right, you would assume the road to the left didn't exist. But it gets even trickier because really there is NO OPTION other than to turn right at this intersection, so it doesn't even count as a turn at all. So you would turn right, but you would still be looking for a place to execute your Turn instruction! This is a VERY common type of trap. If you take anything from this tutorial, this is a good example! There are several other solutions to this problem as well.

Carl: Your solution to the T problem is also correct and is worth reviewing in detail because it is another form of the common trap I listed above. If one of the legs of the T has the same name as the road you were put onto (in essence meaning that leg is the main road and the other is a side road), then turning down the leg with the same name is not really considered a turn and would be the way you would go in the absence of the instruction. So the Turn instruction WOULD in fact direct you to turn OFF the main road and onto the side leg.

Richard: How to handle interactions with law enforcement. As Bowie mentioned, the authorities have been notified of our shenanigans. But chances may be that word has not reached every officer, so if you are approached, explain that you are participating (probably best not to use the word competing--we would have to give them this whole lesson!) in a tour arranged by the organizer (feel free to give them our names and where we can be found) where the object is to follow directions to the end of the tour. Explain that it all takes place at legal speeds and any violation of the law is strictly prohibited by the organizer (admittedly a tough argument to make if he's pulled you over for speeding, but nonetheless true). Granted, I have zero experience with North Carolina's finest, so I have no idea how they'll react. In Vermont, sometimes the cops were interested and hung out at the checkpoints for awhile to watch! Locals on the other hand are usually not so interested, particularly if you're on their road that doesn't get much traffic. Remember to be courteous and to remember that it's their road that we're borrowing (even though we all know it's really a public road).

Okay, well, I think that answers the questions received so far. Hopefully this gets the juices flowing for more questions. I hope I haven't overwhelmed you, but rally is definitely a thinking sport.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:17 pm 
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How much time allowance do we get for being pulled over? :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:25 pm 
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Ash Nelson wrote:
How much time allowance do we get for being pulled over? :lol:


I don't know...maybe you can get him to escort you at 120mph so you don't need a TA!

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 Post subject: Signpost Example
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:09 pm 
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Okay, one last bit I promised to share. The following picture is like a Rallymaster's Dream:

Image

I've labeled all the interesting things about this sign. This doesn't show all things you will need to know, but it sure shows a lot! This sign is located at an intersection that depending on where you are positioned is either a side road left or a T. STONEY HILL CHURCH RD is the main road (top of T) and HARRIS RD is a left side road (stem of T).

Code:

                     |     S
      ^              |     T
      |              |     O
      N              |     N
                     |     E
                     |     Y
                     |   
                     |     H
                     |     I
    HARRIS           |     L
   ------------------| X   L
                     |   
                     |     C
                     |     H
                     |     U
                     |     R
                     |     C
                     |     H
         


X is the location of the signs.

Okay, here are the interesting items on these signs:

A: Identifies the road to the left as HARRIS RD
B: Identifies house numbers starting at 8450 are located on this "block" of HARRIS RD
C: Identifies the main road as STONEY HILL CHURCH
D: Identifies house numbers starting at 6650 are located just down the road in the direction indicated.
E: Indicates that one would turn onto HARRIS RD to reach ROUTE 97 is (the seven is partially obscured in this picture) and it is (obscured) miles from the sign. Note that it does not indicate that HARRIS RD is ROUTE 97, but that ROUTE 97 is in that direction.
F: Indicates that ROUTE 231 is 5 miles back (south) on STONEY HILL CHURCH RD. Again, this does NOT indicate that that section of STONEY HILL is ROUTE 231, just that it can be reached by going in that direction.
G: Indicates that ROUTE 581 is reached by continuing on towards the north on STONEY HILL CHURCH RD. Notice that no mileage is given.

Now the really interesting ones. H & I are one way in which State Roads (SR)'s are specified.

H: Indicates that HARRIS RD is SR 1133. Pay attention to the arrow on the sign.
I: Indicates that STONEY HILL CHURCH is SR 1109. Pay attention to the double-headed arrow on the sign.

Like I said, this is only one way that SR's are specified. The other way is as a second number of the green road signs. If the number (usually (always?) 4 digits) is preceded by the letters SR, it indicates an SR number. Usually the house number indicator will also be on the sign as well, so it's important to know how to tell the difference.

Obviously these types of signs are not huge. So you do need to take your time when you approach intersections to examine them to find out if it's what you are looking for. But at least now you know what you are looking for!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:11 pm 
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Would bringing a digital camera count as equipped? :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:57 am 
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Ash Nelson wrote:
Would bringing a digital camera count as equipped? :D

I have a feeling that the decision better be made when you look at the sign. By the time you take a picture and take the time to look at it........well.......you're reeeeeeeeeeeally late. :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:14 am 
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No, I want to take pictures of all of the lost participants as we pass them!

:lol:

[/smacktalk]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:40 am 
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Ash Nelson wrote:
No, I want to take pictures of all of the lost participants as we pass them!

:lol:



But if they're lost and you pass them, aren't you just getting more lost?

:lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:51 am 
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Probably. But we'll be getting lost faster. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:42 pm 
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Location: Probably somewhere near an autocross.
Yea, I was thinking about mounting the camcorder we use for autox. Then I started thinking about after the first 5 minutes when we’re already hopelessly lost and the cursing starts. Some things are probably better just NOT recorded. :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:49 am 
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Gwen Baake wrote:
Yea, I was thinking about mounting the camcorder we use for autox. Then I started thinking about after the first 5 minutes when we’re already hopelessly lost and the cursing starts. Some things are probably better just NOT recorded. :roll:


We can't have the sound on when we watch back my autox runs. MJ would learn all those words I work so hard for her not to hear! :D

Anyone know of a good attorney for all of us couples that are going to do this? If it is anything like the first time Dustin and I tried to sail our old boat we are in big trouble! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson Seven: Sample Instructions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:48 am 
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Lance Pickup wrote:
Code:

0.00   1.  Begin odometer check at "The Good Times Meeting Place" (S-O-L sign-on-left).  Zero odometer.  Begin rally at 2:00pm plus car number in minutes.

Take 27.00 minutes to reach NRI 14.  Right.

0.28   2.  Turn Right at SI (signalized intersection)
0.46   3.  Turn Left at SI (signalized intersection)
0.51   4.  Turn Right
1.23   5.  Turn Left at T
2.80   6.  Bear Left at "Van Sicklen Road" (S-O-L Sign-on-left)
3.93   7.  Turn Left at T
4.12   8.  Turn Right
4.74   9.  Turn Right at T
4.94   10. Turn Left (Old Creamery Road)
6.95   11. Turn Left at slant T
8.76   12. Straight at STOP
11.86  13. Turn Right at T

12.29  14. End ODO Check at first entrance to pull-off on right.  Pull in to the pull-off and perform your odometer calibration.  CAS 46
     
       15. Turn Right out of pull off.
       16. "SPEED LIMIT 40" CAS 40
       17. Turn at "Blue Flame Gas"
       18. "SPEED LIMIT 35".  CAS 33
       19. Turn Left at T.
       20. Turn Right at "Arcana Gardens".  CAS 30 (CAUTION: Ruts in 0.7mi)
       21. Turn Right at T.
       22. Turn Right at STOP.  PAUSE 30 (18 seconds)
       23. Turn at second opportunity



Trying to understand what I've read thus far:
Where it states “take 27 minutes to reach NRI 14. Right.”

NRI 14 would be further down the page where it states "12.29 14. End ODO Check, blah, blah, blah.” Is that correct? If so, I’m confused about the numbers to the left of each numbered instruction. I would have thought they were minutes and 1/100 of minutes, however, they add up to much more than 27 minutes.

So, can you translate what the above means for us Noobs. Also, then it says Right. It shouldn’t mean Turn Right, because it doesn’t say “turn” right. So, what does “Right” mean in this instruction?
:?

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 Post subject: Re: Lesson Seven: Sample Instructions
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:09 am 
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Gwen Baake wrote:
Trying to understand what I've read thus far:
Where it states “take 27 minutes to reach NRI 14. Right.”

NRI 14 would be further down the page where it states "12.29 14. End ODO Check, blah, blah, blah.” Is that correct? If so, I’m confused about the numbers to the left of each numbered instruction. I would have thought they were minutes and 1/100 of minutes, however, they add up to much more than 27 minutes.

So, can you translate what the above means for us Noobs. Also, then it says Right. It shouldn’t mean Turn Right, because it doesn’t say “turn” right. So, what does “Right” mean in this instruction?
:?


Sorry, the format doesn't translate well over in these posts. The actual rally instructions had headers for the columns. The numbers on the left are official mileages. They are there for 2 reasons:

1) To help you out by letting you know that you are coming up to the intersection/instruction in question.

2) At times a mileage may be given where you MUST execute an instruction. For example, there may be an instruction that simply says:

Code:
  24.52      57.    CAS 29


Meaning that at mileage 24.52, you should change your speed to 29 mph. There is no landmark or anything, you just change speed to 29 when you get to 24.52 miles (normally there would be another mileage given not too far before that, referenced to a landmark so if your odo was way off you wouldn't be in too much trouble!)

There are also instructions keyed to mileages that DO have course following directions:

Code:
  31.92     65.    Turn right.


Meaning you would execute the turn ONLY at mile 31.92, even if there were earlier opportunities to turn right.

Now notice that during the odo check (the first 14 instructions in my sample), the Rallymaster has been nice enough to give you mileages to every instruction. This is because we do not want you to get lost during the odo check! Plus you can start to get a feel for how far off your car's odo is from the Rallymaster's. So it's very common to have that many mileages given. After that, mileages given in the instructions tend to be sporadic (but there are some--and there usually is a very good reason they are there!)

So if you were following this rally, you would zero your odometer at the sign that says "The Good Times Meeting Place", and start following the course. At 0.28 miles, you would turn right at a signal. At 0.46 miles you would turn left at a signal. At 0.51 miles, you would turn right, and so on.
If you were going the legal speed, about 23-24 minutes later you would be at mile 12.29 at a pull-off on the side of the road where you would check your odometer reading (let's say yours actually read 12.3 at that time), then zero it again at that point if the rally said to (my rallies never did, but Bowie's rally does), then you would park the car until exactly 27 minutes had elapsed since you were supposed to start the rally (in this example, if you were car #9, your start time would have been 2:09pm; 27 minutes after that would be 2:36pm, so you would wait until 2:36.00) While you are waiting, you could be figuring out how high your odometer is reading (12.3/12.29 or a factor of 1.001). Note that instruction 14 says CAS 46. Hopefully you know that you don't speed up to 46 as soon as you hit the pull-off at instruction 14. That's just the speed you'll start up at as soon as your 27 minutes are up.

As for the right vs. turn right, again, my apologies. I was trying to translate over from my style (I just used the words Left and Right and the Turn was implied) to Bowie's, which is what you'll see in the rally on Sunday. I simply missed that one. I wasn't intending to mislead. But good catch! You'll make a fine rallyist!

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