THSCC Forums

As one who logs the data on the raw sheets, I have some concern about adding another item to keep. It can get hectic in the bus at times. I would not object to logging who or which station called in a DNF. If we adopt this, we'll have to come up with some arbitration guidelines.

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"Ruttin' is racing"

Chris Suich
Apex, NC
AutoX 2012 Nissan Leaf (Quietly changing the world)
AutoX 2003 Mini Cooper S (on sabbatical)
RallyX 1993 Nissan Sentra - "Le Tigre"
FunX 1970 Camaro LT1 ('95)

Rock/paper/scissors or leg wrestling if its dry.

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RedLanternRacing, builders of the fastest cars in last place.
Success is not an option.
1981 Scirocco, "Vera"

Actually at this point only people who actually *work* in T&S have made suggestions! That's a good thing -- no armchair quarterbacking going on.

I think Brian screwed up by making this thread about cone calls - I would agree there isn't enough reason to make a change -- but Brian's problem was really a DNF call issue, which in this case we find was warranted!

Chris take a look at my prior post -- I would like to try this myself at the next event just to see how it works. All I am going to do is keep a separate blank page on the table, and each time a DNF is called, I am going make a "DNF log" entry with car #, station, worker name, and some kind of description of what happened.

There are, what, maybe at 10-20 or so DNFs at a rallycross these days? Shouldn't be too hard to write down 5 pieces of information.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I'll be interesting in seeing how that works out. Even in rallycross, it seems a good percentage of the time the calls are on "the blue Subaru" instead of a class/number, and requests for better info are often met with a garbled response or no response at all.


Mike, are you sure you've been working in the bus? 3 DNFs would be a lot at one of our events...

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

I was the one who responded on the radio to Steve after he asked about Cosby's run through that corner. I clarified for Steve that cones already laying down do not "define" the course therefore he was not "out of bounds" so to speak.

This is first I'm hearing about it, but if it were brought up at the event closer to the time it happened I'm sure we could have corrected it.

Clearly Steve made a mistake and has admitted to doing so. OK, so he's not perfect, just ask his wife. I do not see this as a common occurance or need for change in procedure.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

But I think the valid point here is that there's little way to do anything at the event without a little more information to work from, which I think is the point of the extra data.

My take, and something I think we should somehow try to reiterate (drivers meeting, when sending people out to work, both, etc...) is that workers should be consulting their "co-workers" and/or the bus for DNF calls at RallyX. If there are really <5 DNF's per event, even holding start to get the required info may be justified.

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

Kudos to Steve for stepping up and admitting he may have missed a couple of calls.

I was working the 1st station in the morning when a few people (more than just Brian and Cosby) went wide of the pointers on the outside of the turn. The first time it happened, we had a little pow-wow at the station to make sure it didn't get called in as a DNF. We were definitely picking up cones at that spot so it should have been clear we were responsible for working that area.

I'm surprised that another station called in the alleged DNF's (I'm guessing Steve was at station 2?) and I think it goes to show that we all need to be aware of our areas as well as actually listening to what is happening on the radio even if we are not making the call. I think the error could have been avoided if the radio operators of those nearby stations were paying closer attention to each other.

I don't see much of a problem either. It's probably worth emphasizing in the driver's meeting that we all need to be diligent about staying within our area (unless a station is having a radio problem) and checking with peers about DNF's but that's about it.

Jim

Actually, it was corrected at the event- if you look at Brian's times you'll see he ended up winning his class. But the DNF was on his morning results, and obviously a big concern to him.

He spoke with me about it at the lunch break and my response to him at the time was (and still is), "Ultimately the authority on these things is the course worker who witnessed the penalty. We can't just go around erasing penalties for drivers simply because they're "sure they didn't do it"". But we didn't know where the DNF was called, and therefore who would have called it, so we couldn't investigate further.

Finally I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt because I felt I knew Brian well enough to trust he would not try to cheat on something like this, and also that he would not be unaware that he DNFed. But I made a personal judgement in this case, and I would certainly not overturn course worker judgements in the absence of further info for just anyone who walked up and pled their case (so don't try it, Simon, we've got you on video! )

Anyway, as I said earlier, the DNF rules are so simple that I'd rather we just handle this with improved worker education rather than by imposing some new process on the already-busy T&S workers, but the frequency of DNFs is fortunately pretty low and the consequences of mistakes are pretty high, so I don't think it's an unreasonable request. But I'll leave it up to y'all to make it work.

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

CAUTION! CAUTION! COMPLEX SOLUTION COMING UP!!!

A- Give the guy with the radio a pen and pad and jot down who DNF'ed and why? Turn in a the end of the shift.

B- If you call in a DNF while working, you have to go to the bus and give a statement of "what happened" after the run group.

I hate complexity just as much as anyone, but a DNF rallycrossing SUX!

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

How about we just have all the workers go to the bus and wait to be ASSIGNED A STATION and THEN sent out, instead of just sending them to wherever they want to go whenever they arrive? Each station gets somebody who knows what the Hell they're doing, who will be the radio operator for that station. If people who know what the Hell they're doing operate the radios, life will be much simpler.

And if you call a DNF on somebody when it's not really a DNF, and the timing team finds this out, YOU get the DNF.

a tad bit harsh Mr. Allen, don't you think. this is a core group of about 30 individuals. some wiser, more proficient and more serious than others.

do we really want to become what the hardcore autoX'ers have become? damn dude, isn't that why you have seperated yourself from the norm and what led you to develop a new program? it was f***'n cold that morning,

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

I must bring it up again, final FTD to be decided by a mountian bike race around the course. Say five-ten laps.
Last years single speed championship was decided by gocart race. We can innovate as well.

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RedLanternRacing, builders of the fastest cars in last place.
Success is not an option.
1981 Scirocco, "Vera"

What was so harsh about that? I thought it made pretty good sense.

And how does trying to assure that the people "in charge" at each station know what they're doing and are paying attention sound like a bad thing?

We have too many people being handed a radio and sent on their merry way without knowing anything about their new job. I think we should pair up those who don't know anything and don't give a crap about knowing anything with at least ONE person who's experienced & paying attention. And I think that person should be put in charge.

I can go out there and drive all over the place, sliding around with huge drift angles with nobody watching me any time I want. I think the actual events should be a little more structured than that.

Oh, and if anybody ever calls a DNF on me at a rallyx when I KNOW I didn't DNF, those of you who were at the NCAC ain't seen nothin!!!









(j/k - that was for Wes)

I *still* don't see this as a huge problem. Kind of like the whole "oh my GOD let's make the course slow so nobody could flip" thing . Trust me, Mo was scared enough and most likely won't be on two wheels again.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)