Lets talk tire legality

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:06 pm

Ok, I dont wanna be in the boat of buying some "street" tires that wont cut the mustard for street tire class in Rallyx. Here are two good (cheap) examples that I have looked at.

Kooks

Dunflops

Thoughts?

BretLuter · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:39 pm

Glad this is being brought up now.

I don't write the rules, but I think that we might have to place some limits on what is classified a "street" tire. Maybe "winter" tires and/or Mud & Snow tires should be classified as Rally tires (???).... The way I understand it, the "W" suffix indicates winter or snow tire.

The way the current rules are written, it mentions the spacing between tread blocks, and basically outlaws tires with too much spacing between blocks. Many of the winter tires I've seen would technically be legal. Not sure about some of the "mud" tires, but somehow I suspect there is a mud tire out there that could be legal as the rules are currently written.

On a different note, I *believe* the rubber compound used in many winter tires would be way too soft for rallycross use- I think some of these tires would tend to chunk if run on hard packed surfaces....Probably Not something we have to worry too much about with our 2 most commonly used rallyx sites...

Bret.

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:48 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Ok, I dont wanna be in the boat of buying some "street" tires that wont cut the mustard for street tire class in Rallyx. Here are two good (cheap) examples that I have looked at.

Kooks

Dunflops

Thoughts?

It is basically what Kevin and Carl say goes. Something that is more aggressive than a Continential M+S Extreme Contact is too aggressive.

The tires you posted would be too aggressive, I believe.

Kevin and Carl will post, and if I still had the PM he sent me, I would post it.

Oh, and tires with cuts are also rally tires.

- dow

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:13 pm

BretLuter wrote:

Glad this is being brought up now.

I don't write the rules, but I think that we might have to place some limits on what is classified a "street" tire. Maybe "winter" tires and/or Mud & Snow tires should be classified as Rally tires (???).... The way I understand it, the "W" suffix indicates winter or snow tire.

Here is what Discounts site says about lettering.

Quote:

Reading Tire Sizes:

Example Size: P205/60R-15OWL
P - Passenger
Tire sizes can also start with the following:
BP - Cosmetic Blemish Passenger
LT - Light Truck
205 - Width in millimeters of tire from sidewall to sidewall.
60 - Aspect Ratio - Percentage of tread width that equals the sidewall height.
R - Radial
The letter “R” can also include the following:
HR - H=Speed Rating
VR - V=Speed Rating
ZR - Z=Speed Rating
15 - Rim diameter in inches.
Other letter combinations include:
OWL - Outlined White Lettering
RWL - Raised White Letters
W - Whitewall
B - Blackwall
ORWL - Outlined Raised White Letters
WW - White Wall
BW - Black Wall

I wish the "W" here stood for Whitewall. I would SOOOOOO love to pimp some whitewalls!

However, I guess if I would READ a bit I would have noticed this:

Ok, so the Kook is out, its a winter tire, no problem there. However, the Dunflop is just an All-Season. I cant find M+S on the thing ANYWHERE.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:50 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

BretLuter wrote:

I don't write the rules, but I think that we might have to place some limits on what is classified a "street" tire. Maybe "winter" tires and/or Mud & Snow tires should be classified as Rally tires (???).... The way I understand it, the "W" suffix indicates winter or snow tire.

However, I guess if I would READ a bit I would have noticed this:

Ok, so the Kook is out, its a winter tire, no problem there. However, the Dunflop is just an All-Season. I cant find M+S on the thing ANYWHERE.

OK, Ryan, glad to see you figured it out yourself. For the rest of you, quoting the rules:

Quote:

S - Street Tire. For the purposes of this class, a "street tire" is defined as a "summer use" or "all-season" tire from any manufacturer that does not have an knobby or overly aggressive tread pattern, as determined by the Rallycross VP or his designate. Specifically excluded are snow tires[my emphasis -Carl], rally tires, mud-terrain or all-terrain tires, and any tire with a knobby tread pattern.
The intent of this definition is to permit any "normal" street tire to be used in competition. However some tires will obviously push this limit, and the Rallycross VP reserves the right to make (or delegate) that determination on a case-by-case basis. Note: many OEM truck and SUV tires will be deemed too aggressive to meet this classification.

So snow tires (like the Kooks) are out for Street Tire, but the Dunlops would be OK.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:36 am

Thanks Carl! We are still shopping to find the CHEAPEST solution. I think we need 2 or 3 new tires to give all our rims good tread. I'll post somemore tires us when I find good canidates, I think this will help EVERYONE.

Brian --> :nana:

Brian Herring · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:41 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Thanks Carl! We are still shopping to find the CHEAPEST solution. I think we need 2 or 3 new tires to give all our rims good tread. I'll post somemore tires us when I find good canidates, I think this will help EVERYONE.

Brian --> :nana:

Ah.. the black art of 'Street Tires'.

Now, if I can find some 10 TW rating non-aggressive M+Ss....

I openly admit that the 'tire selection' process in RallyX is still WAY open to finding 'the tire' or 'the cheap tire'.

Good job, Holton

- dow

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:55 am

Carl Fisher wrote:

So snow tires (like the Kooks) are out for Street Tire, but the Dunlops would be OK.

Thanks for the clarification Carl. Stephen found those same SP60s on Friday at TR so they were on our "would work" list. Price is doable too.

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Quote:

So snow tires (like the Kooks) are out for Street Tire, but the Dunlops would be OK.

That's what I was going to say.

I've seen some tires at WalMart that look like they'd be pretty good for a POS car on dirt. Some kind of Goodyear tire that was below $50 each for 14" sizes.

PJ Aspesi · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:28 am

[quote="Kevin Allen]
I've seen some tires at WalMart that look like they'd be pretty good for a POS car on dirt. Some kind of Goodyear tire that was below $50 each for 14" sizes.[/quote]

tell me more!!
i just looked on there and the goodyear winters are 75 bucks

would it make sense to get some with shorter sidewalls?

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:01 am

PJ Aspesi wrote:

would it make sense to get some with shorter sidewalls?

PJ, are you just trying to make a setup line for me or what?

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:48 am

PJ Aspesi wrote:

would it make sense to get some with shorter sidewalls?

Vincent's REALLY OLD joke aside, this is a good question. Which is more likely to last longer. 70 or 50 series sidewall tires? Why?

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:06 pm

I'm no Rallycross expert, but I would think increased sidewall height might be your friend, with enough pressure in them to make them stand up. You just don't want to hurt your gearing too badly. - AB

PJ Aspesi · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:12 pm

well i understand taller tires get through deeper ruts/mud.......but with the whole debeading issue less sidewall might be an ok substitute for stiffer sidewalls (b/c we are trying to be cheap)

gearing would have to be taken into consideration, esp with our crappy automatic!

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:22 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Vincent's REALLY OLD joke aside...

To refer to an even OLDER joke, Stephen asked me on Saturday if we should reuse the oil filter on the General. Since you were the expert on that subject, and were not available, we decided to just buy a new one.

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