THSCC Forums

IF we add another rallyx event to the schedule, would you rather have a competition, or a test & tune/ school?

The competition would be just like normal, and would count as a points event. So you'd have 5 events to count at end of year instead of 4 (we drop the worst 2).

The test & tune/ school would be a paying event for all participants; no designated instructors or students, just people riding with people and giving suggestions. Or people driving by themselves & trying different things with the car. We'd have a timer set up, but wouldn't be entering times in a computer - maybe just a volunteer writing them on a piece of paper. Very relaxed & informal, and if course planning & event day execution go well, we could get a bunch of runs. We could also have a lunchtime discussion about the morning course, and people could ask questions about something that gave them trouble or give their experiences on what worked or didn't work. I'd like to have at least one of these per year, and the discussion about adding another event (or 3 ) has provided a good opportunity to do this midway through the season.

So what do the people think?

I always love the heat of competition and would love to get another points event in. On the opposite side, I am new at rallycross and looking at getting a completely different car so a test and tune would be good also. I guess we will see what the rest of the drivers think.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

somehow I knew you would be the first to respond...

Test and tune would be choice. Especially with my newfound driving style displayed first time out last week.

I voted compete, but not because I want another points event. I don't care one way or another about that.

I DO believe however that we should stay away from pure test-n-tune or school events that do not require a driver to be consistent and safe to be competitive. If you take away the "carrot" of needing to have 6 clean in-control runs, people can and will push themselves harder - since there will be no competitive repercussions.

So from a safety point of view I think every run a person makes on dirt in this club while under our insurance should be cumulative. I know we do fun runs, and I myself have driven more stupid and at risk in fun runs than I do during competition. I would be in favor of eliminating fun runs if others in charge shared my views as well.

One day we will have some insurance questions to answer about this sport. The nature of driving on dirt is different than our autocrosses and unfortunately our current guidelines don't give a lot of help with course safety design for rallycross. As the program grows we have to continue to prepare for disaster, including knowing exactly how mich risk we encourage and support. Being able to state the cumulative run aspect I think is a HUGE benefit in risk mitigation.

This is all IMO. Sorry for being such a downer

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

That is a very good point. People seem to push harder than they should when nothing is at stake. I have seen stupid little accidents happen at many autocrosses during fun runs because the driver is pushing to hard and loses control. So I totally agree with the perspective.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

I am not sure whose autocross events you are referring to. So you need to be careful with you wild claims.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

I am refering to the club that I belonged to in NY. Sorry for any misunderstanding. I am not talking about THSCC.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

Yeah, Keith - don't be making wild claims based on your personal experiences - you might offend somebody. And we can't have that.



I've seen several stupid accidents that caused damage to cars at autoxes - and they weren't in NYC. I've also participated in several stupid spins that would've caused damage to cars if the course hadn't been designed safely. And I've spun my own cars in our field many times (not at a rallyx event, just playing around on my own time).

Looks like people would rather race than learn, so it's a moot point - but I was seeing the school/ test & tune a different way than Mike. I was thinking that we would be promoting driving smart (meaning choosing the right line & the right entry/exit techniques), consistency & safe driving (avoiding ruts, rollovers, car damage by actually talking about those things & focusing on safety) to help people get out of the autox mindset & get better at rallyx.



My point is, not everybody is having 6 clean, in-control runs now. Did you look at the results from the last rallyx? How many people DIDN'T cone? And if you're not in contention for a trophy because you DNF'ed your first run, what's left? GO FOR IT! Get FTD - whatever the cost. If you break the car, oh well - there are plenty of people around who will tow it home for you.

If I had to choose between playing it safe, not breaking the car & ending up with 2nd place - or pushing really hard, risking a rollover or breaking a suspension part or whatever, guess what I'd choose? I value my car & my life too much to do something stupid.

The whole point here is that rallyx doesn't really reward the "I need one blazingly fast run" mindset. We have a few people who go out balls to the wall every run - they may set FTD on one course or the next, but do they win a trophy when they drive like that? No. And sometimes they put 2 wheels in the air. THAT'S the kind of thing I would want the school to put a stop to. If you see somebody at the school/ test & tune driving really stupid (whether that means unsafe, or just really poor technique)... all you have to do is walk up & say "Dude, we need to talk."

Just my opinion, keep the votes coming. I'm totally fine with skipping the school if nobody wants it. (I have 10 acres and my own set of cones to practice with, so I'm set)

And the exact same thing should be said to someone who does it during a competition event. None of our events are a forum for doing anything you want, rallycross, track or autocross. If there is unsafe behavior, there needs to be a warning, and if it isn't heeded then people need to quit driving (by mandate).

Scott

Well said, Kevin, and I agree completely. These are things that a school would be very good for. In fact, it's made me reconsider what a good idea having another school would be. I think we should work up a syllabus for the instructors that explicitly included these things, though, as opposed to the casual approch Kevin was originally proposing. There really are a set of techniques that can be taught to improve speed and safety. If we can inculcate them into people's general car-control reflexes I think we'd definitely be improving the safety of the program- more than would be done at an autocross school.

I voted for a competition just because I didn't feel the need for a Test&Tune, but I'm convinced a school would be a good idea. It's not always about what I want...

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

Now that it is being explained in some more detail. I think a school would be a great idea.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

Well, I was thinking I'd make a copy of the notes that I made for the (cancelled) WDCR SCCA rallyx school & give everybody a handout at the drivers' meeting; I just figured that was unecessary info & didn't include it in my description.

I also have some HotWheels rally cars that we could use to demonstrate some things in "slow motion" on the ground.

If it's done right, I think a lot of people could learn a lot about being fast on dirt. I always thought that throwing the car around & being sideways everywhere was fast until I watched Matthew Johnson & Carl at our very first rallycross. I improved a lot that day from morning to afternoon just by watching them & applying what I had seen to my own driving.

edit: also wanted to explain that I didn't want to have designated instructors & students, because everyone pretty much knows who gets it & who doesn't, but all of us still have something to learn. So if you saw someone getting faster times than you, but driving a similar car, you'd go "Hmmm... I should get him to ride with me & tell me what I'm doing wrong - or maybe ride with him & see what he's doing right" or if you saw somebody making a mistake (and everyone should be able to recognize them after they receive the handout), you'd walk over after their run - or whenever - & point it out to them.

So.........when?

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Common sense is NOT so common. ...Voltaire.

I will help with the setup and chairing of the event if someone is needed. I am in denile of not being able to rally.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles