THSCC Forums

Since the BMW Farm site seems to hold up to our shenanigans somewhat better than the Four Oaks site, what do people think about the idea of allowing rally (or snow or all-terrain) tires to be used there? Obviously the first step in any actual plan would be to OK it with Bret and Kelly, but my hunch is they won't have a problem with it.

We've got the classes in the rules already (NU2, NO2, NO4)- the big issue in my mind is where to fit them into the event schedule. My inclination would be to say that the S* classes should always run before the N* classes, both morning and afternoon, out of fairness to the S* folks. I think we'd also develop a need to either have a separate afternoon course (as we've already been doing lately at Four Oaks), or reroute more corners than we have so far had to at BMW Farm, and all of this takes more time to do, so events would probably run a bit longer than they have been.

And if we allowed it at BMWF, should we allow it a FO too? It'd be kinda hard to compete for a championship if you can only run it at half the events...

So what do y'all think? Would you run rally tires if we allowed them just at 1 site? At both? If you always had to run after the Street Tire guys? Let me hear it!

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

I dont know if it is useful input, but there is quite some time between this event, and the next one which is scheduled in late August.

Is that enough time to schedule a 'test event' with the addition of the 'Rally' tires to see if the event site can take it, along with how wear works? It would seem that wear over the course of the event would be the biggest concern. Do you wan the 'rally' tire guys 'sweeping' the course first (as long as there arent a TON of them) so the course gets some inital grip to increase traction? I know that some of the problem between the setup day, and the beginning of the event was getting rid of the grass, and getting some dirt exposed. Having them run first and last can help you get some initial 'sweeping' done, and let them tear it up in the end. This all comes form the assumption that there are realitively few Rally Tire cars.

Anyway, that is my limited input. I would like to see what other more experienced people would think. Do the DC guys have any input? Anders? Carl?

Personally, I would like to get into rallyX. I have my stock suspension (which would ride on the stock struts) that I could run so I could RallyX. For me, if I am going to rallyX, I want to make the car as fast as possible. 'Competition' type tires (not too much unlike Azenis) that are more 'purpose built' is very appealing. After riding along with Cosby in an SO4 car, there was some grip, but it was still a lot of sliding. I would be interested in having a little more grip so you could increase slip angles. However, I need to start competiting so my opinion is worth a crap.

Anyway, WHEN I rallyX, I want to do it right for me. I want to do it in an AWD car, and the more grip I can get -- I am all for it. I would hav eto buy all season tires to begin with, and I would rather get something more aggressive that is 'purpose' built, rather than an all season. I am not going to use either outside events, so I am down with the more 'aggressive' tire.

Just my two cents.


- brian

I have limited experience with driving but I do have an extensive knowledge of stage rally. Knowing several guys from NY ( where I used to live) who were into stage rally. A competition rally tire will definitely tear up the course a lot more. It will give the two wheel drive cars much better traction. My WRX was easier to drive in the morning than it was in the afternoon. I was struggling with more wheelspin in the bare dirt that i was in the grass on the morning course. I am running the crappy OEM RE92 tires still though. Take my opinion with a grain of salt as I am not a very experienced rally driver.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles

Rally tires or no, I'm still down for the event's. As for Brian's ride with me, you don't get the full effect from a ride along, but you might get a better feel from a ride with one of the people who know more about what they are doing. There was a lot more sliding in the afternoon this time, but I completely enjoyed it. Still, this really hangs on the owner's of the event sites. If they don't want it, we may be getting our hopes up.

I'm just trying to put out a feeler right now, since we've got some time before the next event- no one's planning anything yet.

Anyone want to give me their answers to the above questions?

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

Yes it would suck to only be allowed to run Rally tires at 1 site. That would definitely keep me away from Rally tires.

The other thing to think about is if they are allowed and several people go out and buy them. The first event rolls around and they DESTROY the course well beyond what we have now and they are re-banned. You end up screwing people who spent their $.

I dont care one way or the other

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Maybe

Maybe

Maybe.

For: the tires are just so much stronger.
Against: splitting up the classes

You know what I would actually like to see? rally tires allowed, but with a maximum tread depth of maybe 6/32. (Not the 12/32 or 13/32 that they come with new.) Why?

-You would get the benefits of the strength and anti-debeading of a rally tire
-The traction wouldn't be huge
-only used rally tires would qualify, cheaper

I like *less* traction. To the folks (if there are any) that want more traction, I recommend that you try autocross.

Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Sorry to stray off topic.

Quick answers:

- I would buy only (1) set of 'rallyX' tires. If they were not allowed at both sites, I would be coming to only the events that allowed them, or I would get a 'crappy' set that allowed me to do all. I would not buy multiple sets.

- I would run whenever. RallyX is mostly a 'for fun' event. However, if I am going to have to buy 'rallyX' tires, I would like to get something that is REALLY made to rallyX.

Hope that is more to the point.

- brian

Ok, so are you willing to be the used rally tire broker? I wouldnt know where to start to find a used rally tire, if I so desired.

My point being, that would only open it up to "select" folks who are lucky enough to have a place to get used rally tires.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Well, I think that RallyX is pretty laid back as it is. There were really only two classes, and right now, unless you name is "Kevin Allen" or "Feinburg", you arent going to be at any more of a disadvantage than you are already.

Maybe it will make those 'fast' people move up

I think that having 'options' is never a bad thing. It might be nice if we start fostering some national level rallyX competitors as well


- brian

Ps. Understanding your point was about used rally tires, but you can always shave new ones.

I could probably handle everyone with what I have in my backyard.



I would be happy to point people toward used rally tires. There are *plenty* of them. Generally $25 to $75 per tire. The difference between rally tires and race tires (that is, tarmac race tires) is that after their competitive edge is gone... there's probably still 7/32 tread left. And they are still tuff as nutz.

Or, you could buy new ones and shave them. Of course, that's crazy.

Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Isn't "rally" and "crazy" synonymous?



- brian

I've been planning to suggest that we allow an "X" class that can run rally tires or any other kind of tires they want. They would run last in the am & last in the pm, just in case they tear up the courses. I'd like to see how much difference in times & destruction will come from running some real dirt tires. The ruts are bad enough with the street tires, I don't think the rally tires will make it that much worse - as long as we only have a few people using them.

The X class would be ok to run at Four Oaks - my mom doesn't care what we do as long as we don't turn the field into a landfill (glass, auto body parts, oil, etc.), and I'm the one who has to clean up after everybody, so the decision is really up to me.

I'm not too worried about that. We already know we can repair serious ruts after an event, so restoration, IMO, is not a big problem. If we made the decision to allow rally tires, we'd certainly allow them for at least one full season, even if for some reason we ended up regretting it.

Something I think potential rally tire users should consider is that the best course conditions they'd be likely to see is equivalent to the worst course conditions we currently have at any event, since they'd always be running after the Street Tires. And the last rally tire driver to run could potentially be facing some fairly heinous course conditions- would that dampen your desire to run rally tires?

While Anders' idea of allowing used rally tires below a certain tread depth is good in spirit, the difficulties in reliably finding tires when you need them, and checking/policing the tread depth, make it seem like a nightmare to actually implement. If we decide to go for it, I think we should allow tires to be unrestricted in the N* classes.

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Carl Fisher

Be Cool to the Pizza Dude:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=4651531

I like the idea of running an X class. It would be good to put all the faster drivers into a class and if your allowed to run rally tires maybe there would be some more guys showing up from further away. But if the fast guys all run X then where do I go. I got 3rd place at my first rallycross and am definitely not fast enough to keep pace with Kevin or Phil, yet!! Maybe some other people will give good competition. There is no fun winning if your not challenged by anyone.

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2010 Honda Fit Sport
Couple of bicycles