THSCC Forums

Hi all,

I've been thinking about the proposal in another post which suggested running each rallycross course only twice to protect the soft soil. I think that the idea has some merit and I even gave it a "name". I'm thinking of this as "Recce Format" rallycross. Your first run is your recce pass to see the course and get ready to make your actual attack on the next run. Both runs would still be competitive timed runs just like we do now, this is just a mental game. And I can see the possibility for some fun "spreadsheet racing" afterwards! Seperate the "recce" runs from the "race" runs, then see who was the fastest on the race passes, add up and see who made the most improvement from recce-to-race (made best use of their recee pass), see who was most consistent from recce-to-race, and add up the total of all passes just like we do now, etc..

This is intended as an effort to protect the track and give everybody a more fair shot at the course. I like the idea of running the inside / outside lanes on each side of the cones, etc. There will be more work of switching the cones around no matter how you do it, but that won't be a big deal as long as EVERYBODY helps.

So what do you think? Please remember to take off your autocross hat before answering. This is very much like autocross, but rallycross _is not_ autocross and we need to think outside the box a little bit regarding run formats and everything else for that matter. Lets be creative and keep things fun for everyone...

Eric

Only problem for me (& the event chairs) would be mowing in 3 courses instead of 2, while making sure that the overlap areas aren't going to be rutted. Could possibly just mow the course 3x as wide as usual & move the cones to change courses, but would still have to make sure the rut issue wouldn't come up - and there wouldn't be much variety, as it would be the same course throughout the day, just shifted over a little. Plus, it will suck ass when I have to smooth the field out afterward (50% more ruts than usual ).

So put me down for a "maybe" -

If both the recce run and the race run were counted then I don't see the difference between them. My goal is to get the lowest total time so I won't be checking out the scenery on the recce run, I'll be giving it all I've got.

Simon

Here are some spreadsheet races from the Rock:

http://www.4g61t.com/thsccforum/viewtopic.php?t=1801

Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Hey Kevin,

I _know_ that it would be more work for you, and that is definitely a problem. But I also don't think that you AWD guys appreciate how "un-fun" it is to fight the ruts in a 2wd car.

Speaking ONLY for myself (ok, for myself and my various personalities too), I left Rockingham pretty unhappy and swearing that I wasn't going to another local rallycross. Luckily a month later, sanity has returned and I'm thinking about the next one. But it is no fun for me to go out on "survival runs" hoping simply to find a way through the ruts without disassembling the car. That's not racing, or at least its not what I want to be doing.

So here is another proposal: don't seperate the run groups by class. Make Run Group A, and Run Group B, with an equal number of 2wd and Awd cars in each group. I can't think of a compelling safety reason to seperate the classes, and mixing them would "average" the road conditions a bit better rather than just hammering one particular class...

As usual, these are simply my thoughts, and I'm just putting them here to see if they spark any discussion. YMMV...

Eric

That's true, there's no safety reason to do so.



Actually, statistically this is not true. Mixing would give advantage to the 2wd cars in the first group over 2wd cars in the second group. It would not effect 4wd cars. Again, see:

http://www.4g61t.com/thsccforum/viewtopic.php?t=1801

Cheers,
Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

Sell your pos & get a Subaru.

Seriously, though - as far as ruttage, Rockingham sucked even in the rally car. The fact that I had decided I didn't care if I followed the actual course was what kept it fun.

I'm planning to try some different stuff this time to maybe prevent excessive rutting at our place.

My $0.02 (and I have been flamed for this idea before)...

I think we should run as we do now but add in a random, enforced starting order. At registration people pick numbers out of a hat to determine if they are car #1 or car #10 in their heat. Then, keep an organized grid - and reverse order in the afternoon.

Multiple driver cars would need to be able to trade numbers to properly space their drivers. (ie #2, 4, 6, 8 for example)

Of course earlier cars get a better course, but in the afternoon they get a worse one. Thinking through this, it's the only way I can come up with to neutralize the advantages of run order (and people rushing to the start line to get runs in ASAP).

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Just to add to this idea - the numbers we pick out of a hat should be stickers to put on the windshield. That way drivers and the starter can see who is next.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

While this method still has some drawbacks (as have already been discussed) I am still for it. I think "organized luck" is better than "crap-I-managed-to-get-the-screwgie luck".

Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

You could add a handicap to Mike's system. The winner of the last event runs last in the heat in the morning and afternoon.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.

in rallying, the winner of the last event, turkey- cyprus for ex.
the winner of turkey, due to the fact that the road was swept for him by cars that had gone by earlier(victor in new zealand perhaps) ... he has to start first on the road now at cyprus... Not good.... b/c now, he has to sweep the line clean of loose gravel.. entertaining, but not fast... it equalizes the race, the victor of last race goes out first in next race.. even on stages, it can be like that.. it keeps run order from letting one guy run the sesason... some of the rallies have been won by backmarkers because the racer up front of field is now sweeping the road clean for the other competitors.. but what can happen is the first guy can drag rocks online unknowingly and cause alot of problems for other competitors.. so it swings both ways.. but that is one way to even out the field..

that is true.....

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