Why haven't you tried Rallycross?

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 2:59 pm

For all the intial expressed interest in rallycross, our entry fields have not been all that good. Of course I think it's great, but I'm wondering what the rest of you think.

A couple guidelines for your votes/responses:

Only select "I don't have a suitable car" if you really don't (eg. lowered w/ ground effects, convertible without approved rollbar, minivan or other high-CG vehicle, etc).
Select "I don't want to damage my car" if you think your car is too nice to use for rallycross.
Don't reply giving grief to others who've replied honestly. I'm interested in learning here.
Please only respond if you haven't tried it.

Also, if there are things we could do that would make it more appealing to you, please let us know as well.

Thanks!

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 3:18 pm

I voted for "I don't have a suitable car" for the following reasons:

1) The new celica is too low (it really is low for a stock car) and isn't paid for.

2) The truck really is too high a center of gravity for me to feel safe, and it isn't paid for.

3) The old Celica is always busted, though it would be suitable (and kick ass) if it were running.

4) Even if you don't buy items #1 and #2, both those vehicles have two names on the title, so I'm not the only one who makes the decisions.

I'm one of the few people that has had a car damaged significantly at an autocross, and I *do* believe the likelyhood of damage at a Rallycross is greater than at an autocross.

All of that said, if I had the space to store it, I might consider buying a dedicated car for such a purpose. I won't, however, be saddled with the terms of some of the "shared car" arrangements that are out there.

Anyhow, it's all a bunch of excuses, each one by itself isn't good enough, but they all add up. I almost voted for "my cars are too pretty," but I'd at least wash the darn things after a Rallycross which is better than they get now!

A final excuse might be "time." Alas, cars are not the only thing in my life, and adding an event means something has to give. Is it an autocross, rallycross or track event? Well, I have the right tires for autocross and track, but not for rallycross, so it's an easy decision to make.

Scott

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 3:19 pm

I voted other because after going and watching a little this past Saturday, I have no good excuse or reason for not participating. It looks like it is a BLAST!!!! I'm deffinately signing up for the next one!!

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 3:45 pm

I am in the same boat as Scott. No way would bring out a nationally prepped MR2 to trash in the dirt. Likewise, the Impala SS is not suited for that. I think the truck would scare the course workers and tear the field to peices. With the addition of a Triumph Spitfire to the stable next week

, I don't have room nor money for a rallycross car that might see action 2-3 a year.

Diane Hall · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 4:58 pm

I'm not going to officially vote, but mine would be "The site is too far from my house", for obvious reasons. They do do them up here, but I haven't looked into it. Sounds like a blast from reading about it on here...

Diane

Tom Hoppe · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:16 am **Posts:** 387

325is is busted, no can do.
No way in hell I'm taking the WRX out on dirt

Maybe if the 325 is fixed, I will have a car.

-Tom

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 5:52 pm

I voted for "not having suitable car", but "don't want to damage my car" also works for me.

We need another group buy on Rally Beater V2.0

Dale Schendel · **Posted:** Wed May 26, 2004 10:34 pm

The last two Rally-X events I either had to work or was out of town. Had intentions to go but hey what can you do.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 8:18 am

I would like to address a couple of items on the low participation level. Is the rallycross going to be an on-going club activity? If it is, where is the plan?

What consitutes low participation? I pointed out over a year ago, the national average for these types of events was around 18-20 people. Can you make the program work with an average of 18-20 people? What is the maximu number of people you want at one of these things? Wasn't that figure around 50?

Where is the schedule? It appears the rallycross is more of an ad-hoc get together that uses the club's resources for a select few individuals. Organizing events with the club monies by stating "when is the next rallycross" on a bulletin board is not a good means to generate interest. By the time it makes it to the newsletter, the event has passed or only a few days away.

Start selling it better. Sorry this 8/10ths thing does not work for me. I want to hear Shawn stand in front of the drivers at Rockingham and tell everyone to only drive 8/10ths because we set a course up to close to the fuel tanks. Like that is going to work. Boasting about the car damage, roll overs, etc is not a good marketing technique. Can you over come those, I don't know. You should take a page out of TT's marketing. it gives you the feel of WRC using your own car in a safer enviroment.

Speaking of TT, if you want rallycross to survive as a club activity, take a careful look on how Mark made the TT such a successful club activity. he developed a business plan and a budget. He brought that to club and sold TT as a club activity, not his personal playground. When things were not meeting the plan, he changed and brought in other groups to help spread the cost. Study and learn from TT.

In summary, no schedule, no plan and no budget will lead to the demise of rallycross before any of the options you have in poll.

Just my .02 worth. Take it at that.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

Jim may have a point to partnering with other clubs. How about getting a joint gig with the local truck and tractor pull guys:-)
Anonymous...well almost

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Well, I think the reason we don't really have a business plan is because we're "testing the waters" this year to see how much interest there really is. I've heard a lot of talk from people in this club & in the Subaru forums about how cool it would be to do some rallyxes. Now that we've started doing them, where did the talkers go? Well, that's what Carl is trying to find out via the poll.

I've done what I can, by inviting the Subaru guys & the guys from the DC rally group, and begging club members to invite friends, co-workers, neighbors or whoever else they think might be interested. I think one of the major shortcomings is that you only know there's an event for a few weeks. I'd like to set a schedule for the rest of this year & see if things change when people can plan ahead.

But I do think that if we decide there's enough interest after testing this year, AND we find at least one other site, we should come up with a business plan for 2005.

Thanks for the input, Jim - it's good to hear it honestly from somebody who isn't already hooked. (addicts don't see things quite so clearly)

Oh, forgot to comment on the 8/10ths issue - that's really how you have to drive if you want to win (unless you're just insanely skilled - cough--Jim Feinberg--cough). Times add up, so if you blow it badly on just one run, you're screwed - you may have just gone from first place to 5th. It's definitely something you have to get accustomed to if you've been autoxing for awhile, and it definitely takes some planning to keep the course safe for the whole run group. During this year, I hope to get enough experience to know what's going to make the course dangerous for those who don't know their limits, so we can design courses where everybody CAN drive at 10/10ths safely.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 10:59 am

If you set up a timer and award trophies then by defauly you have a *competition.* That means people will come out and play to *win.*

Losers drive 8/10ths *or* 11/10ths, winners drive 10/10ths. It's that simple.

Driving at 10/10ths means mistakes can and will happen. In my mind the possibilities of damage are greater in off-road racing than on tarmac.

Scott

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

scottjohnson wrote:

If you set up a timer and award trophies then by defauly you have a *competition.* That means people will come out and play to *win.*

Losers drive 8/10ths *or* 11/10ths, winners drive 10/10ths. It's that simple.

Driving at 10/10ths means mistakes can and will happen. In my mind the possibilities of damage are greater in off-road racing than on tarmac.

Scott

Guys, guys, get off of this N/10ths thing. It's all about minimizing the severity of mistakes. The best way to do that is be a little conservative since runs are cumulative. It's a strategy, not a driving requirement.

If the class winners were driving 10/10ths, then everyone else appeared to be driving 13/10ths in places. It's all relative.

Even on my best runs I was still going a little to fast in a couple of corners. And a little too slow in others. Was that 10.5/10th and 9.5/10ths? I dunno.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 11:22 am

As with any sport, as the competition increases, people are going to have to push harder and harder to win. Maybe someday the someone will have to lay down 6 runs at 10/10ths with no cones to take their class. But that's not the case today. We're all still learning how to do this, so it's good strategy to hold something back (I have not been listening to my own advice here... :oops:

).

Good comments- any other non-rallycrossers want to add something?

Thanks!

AndersGreen · **Posted:** Thu May 27, 2004 11:23 am

scottjohnson wrote:

Losers drive 8/10ths *or* 11/10ths, winners drive 10/10ths. It's that simple.

Perhaps this applies to many racing events. However, I don't feel it applies to endurance racing or rallies. The longer the race is, the more important strategy becomes. That particular philosophy may work very well for a 40 second race. I think it applies less to rallycross (now a 210 second race) and very little to a 7800 second rally. (Like Cherokee Trails a couple weeks ago)

Anders

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