New steet tire rule

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:35 pm

Quote:

The rules that people already don't read? No one takes rallycross seriously enough to buy tires for it, and the club doesn't take it seriously enough to police the rules. That seems to be the level folks want. So, in the spirit of "I only want to drive in the dirt, not read the Man's 'rules'", I'm proposing this rule:

Quote:

"Please don't show up with rally tires or knobbies, or other agressive tires, or we will only grudgingly let your run."

I just don't think that the seriousness level of the competitors will respond to increased legislation. Two possible (of many) routes are: relax the rules to meet what the people want, or goad the competitors into becoming more interested in winning and learning car control of this nature.

Good note Anders. Well, as I see it, we're trying to bring people into the sport here (and as with autoX -> racing, maybe some will decide to get into rally, but don't tell my secret agenda... :angeldevil:

), so I'd like to make the barrier to entry as low as possible. Already a lot of people seem to think they need to buy (or rent) a different car to do this- that's a high barrier. So, at least for now, when people with tires with tread gaps of 0.23 or 0.25 or thereabouts on their OEM or other honest-to-goodness street tires come to me looking for sympathy, I'm inclined to give it to them. Especially with all the weirdo tread shapes and sizes out there- geez, even you and I have had a hard time getting "accurate" measurements on some of these tires.

Another big thing is the WDCR guys (whose tire rule I plagiarized) do allow more aggessive tires, they just put them in a different class. So their 0.22" measurement is only the dividing line between 2 possibilities- they'll let anyone play. But with us it's a matter of run-or-go-home, and that's where the barrier-to-entry thing comes in. I think this was Kevin Hoff's point. And your point is we're not very good at telling folks to go home. :oops:

So my thinking at this point is (and has been), let's try to make this fun and easy to do while still providing a reasonable framework to provide safety and fairness, while trying to preserve our most prized asset, Kevin's mom's field. :-)

Now I think if/when the rallycross program starts to get "serious", then at that time we can make the ruleset more structured, and we'll have the added advantage of experience to know what areas need attention and which are already OK.

So basically IMO the best path to take is the 1st option you list, relax the rules to meet what people want.

Dale Schendel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:46 pm

I would invest in Rally style tires if there was a more set scedule for rally-X and I would want to do rally to... but I want a car just for that reason... trees move too fast at times. me personally< I will run what I drve on every day. In fact the same tires I used a larinburg.(even though they are almost bald) I grew up with Rally-style driving on the dirt/gravel roads through the Rockies with less tread on my tires than I do now. The dirt just teaches a lot more of control because of less grip.. ok that's my opinion anyways.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:32 pm

Michael Westerfield wrote:

I'm talking about weight reduction. I think we should have a rule about running with all body panels intact. Of course I'm not pointing any fingers or anything <cough> pizzabox <cough>.

It sure seems like cheating, don't it? Well, I'm still having a hard time getting worked up about it. Let's take a closer look at it and try to see what we're really talking about. Let's say the Pizzabox weighs 2400 lbs in stock form with driver- I think that's optimistic. And let's also say that they can unbolt 200 lbs of ballast in the form of sissy body parts- also probably optimistic. If true, though, that's pretty good- that improves the power/weight ratio by 8.3% for free. OK. Since we know that the Pizzabox makes 48.4 whp, the weight reduction makes it seem as they actually had 52.4 whp.

Yah, I can imagine you saying, it's not so bad for now 'cuz we're just talking about a sub-H-Stock car. What if someone else comes out and tries that with something more powerful, like a Neon, or a Corvette? Well, it's just like they came out with a more powerful car. I mean c'mon, we've only got 3 classes, so the Pizzabox and an Integra Type R are both in the same class. When you also consider that there aren't any restrictions on engine mods, really, what difference does it make?

As you can tell from a glance at the results from either of our events, power/weight is not really a factor. The biggest 2 are traction (in the form of tires and/or # of drive wheels) and driver skill. And of course a fringe benefit of trying to legislate non-grippy tires is it places the focus of the competition where it belongs, on driver skill.

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:38 pm

Carl Fisher wrote:

I mean c'mon, we've only got 3 classes, so the Pizzabox and an Integra Type R are both in the same class. When you also consider that there aren't any restrictions on engine mods, really, what difference does it make?

I know, I just like complaining thats all. The real truth is I'm jealous of the Pizzabox and wish I owned such a nice car.

Sorry, didn't mean to Hi-jack this thread.

Emmie Fisher · **Posted:** Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:19 am

I think we need to add to the rules that, to prove you're having as much fun as you're supposed to at a rallyx, 1 or more course workers must hear you cackling as you drive around the course on your runs. All the girls already have this rule down, but some of you guys are gonna have to work on it. :woo:

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:34 pm

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Tires Schmires!

I'm talking about weight reduction. I think we should have a rule about running with all body panels intact. Of course I'm not pointing any fingers or anything <cough> pizzabox <cough>.

<- Just sore b/c rental car companies give a funny look not a discount if you ask them to rent a car without trunk lid, hood, etc.....

Listen, it was either gut the interior or strap Whitney to the front with a bottle of air for the secondary. Hell even with that we spot most of the field DOUBLE our hp!

Dont make us get Schimel to fab a roll bar up and cut the roof off... :angelslip:

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:44 pm

OK, unless someone has opinions to the contrary (and if so, please email me offline), I am going to change the Official THSCC Rallycross Street Tire Definition to the one proposed in my initial note. There will be an additional 2 hour comment/protest period, starting now. ;-)

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:42 pm

Meet your new Street Tire definition (since I know y'all know the rest of the rules by heart... :roll:

)

Quote:

Street Tire. For the purposes of this class, a "street tire" is defined as a "summer use" or "all-season" tire from any manufacturer that does not have an knobby or overly aggressive tread pattern, as determined by the Rallycross VP or his designate. Specifically excluded are snow tires, rally tires, mud-terrain or all-terrain tires, and any tire with a knobby tread pattern.

The intent of this definition is to permit any "normal" street tire to be used in competition. However some tires will obviously push this limit, and the Rallycross VP reserves the right to make (or delegate) that determination on a case-by-case basis. Note: many OEM truck and SUV tires will be deemed too aggressive to meet this classification.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Woohoo! We have legal tires now! Now if we could only figure out how to keep them on the rims

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