THSCC Forums

Hi All! Hope everyone is doing well!

I thought I had heard some "whispers" that THSCC members/someone/ghosts might not bee overly thrilled about this program, at this point (to what degree? I have no clue).

Is this something I have correct? Is there a financial concern? Most importantly, if this is true how/what needs to be done to correct this?

I think the VPs, past and present, have always done a great job with rallyX, and in 2006, THSCC with DC Region showed SCCA a great National Level RallyX!

If I am off base or in left field, just let me know. However, I would like THSCC to continue supporting the rallyX program, and I just want to know what I need to add to keep it running (I am trying to make all the events and chair when I can!).

Thanks, all for your time, input, and helping me to understand if I need to do more to help.

- brian

I'm with you Brian... you can kill off the RallyX program when you pry it from my cold dead fingers

For all the whiners that RallyX is too dirty, to scary, blah blah blah, just come out and you'll see what REAL grassroots racing is all about. Laid back, friendly, and far less whining than autocrossing. (Did I just say that out loud?)

I'm 90% sure I'll be there this weekend. As always I will offer a co-drive in my Subaru in NO4 to any first-timer who doesn't mind getting dirty and having a good time (requirement is that I at least know of you and somewhat trust you in my car..)

On a serious note I believe the 2 main concerns are that (1) rallyX barely makes money and (2) it makes the cones dirty which is an aggravation for autocross. Both of these are completely valid points worth addressing IMO.

Sincerely,
A Ghost

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

If it's true, folks shouldn't whisper it! Let's talk about it so we can resolve it.

There were some concerns last year, so several RallyX folks went to a club meeting to discuss. Nothing big came out of it, other than the stress level seemed to go down. The VPs and chairs seem to be continuing a great job this year.

I love RallyX!

_________________
91 RallyX Audi Coupe Quattro
89 A-Team Astro-van demo derby winner at 2011 NC State Fair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MrZqwENRqU)
Broken 89 Subaru GL-10 RallyX turbo wagon - need to sell it and all my parts cars

Mr. Whitney:

Good points! If I may address some of them. Also have some "ideas". While I know that having an idea without follow through is useless, I am not in the position for the next few months to be a "leader" yet (baby on the way). However, I would like to share some ideas that anyone could implement, if they haven't already been discussed. Since this is a thread about open discussion, I think this is the right place to try to foster positive discussion, if not action.

Cones getting dirty:

Sure. I can see that. When we setup a rallyX, the VPs and chairs should KNOW that we are only using the "dirty" cones, and the "clean" cones are for autoX. That is how it has always been. If this is has changed, or needs to be redressed, I am sure we can address that. Still rallyX does not need a lot of cones. I am with Mr. Allen on the point that "less is more" when it comes to course setup for a rallyX.

Making Money:

Now, while I agree we don't want a program digging the whole club into the ground, I don't think any program is explicitly out there "to make money". I am glad to see when HPDE makes money, but of course, that is HPDE. Since we have "trends" and "statistics" on this, I am assuming/hoping that the VPs and "board" have expectations set. I am sure that has been done, but this should be quantifiable, which is a good and valid concern.

Retaining Drivers:

I have some great ideas on this area. To make them "THSCC ideas": We have the DC region at a great location close by. Why not foster that relationship? Cross area championship, and bringing more drivers to BOTH events. While, this means that people would have to have cars that can actually make a 3 hour drive, and be road legal, this isn't for everyone in the club. Also, it brings members IN from other regions that are FAST and GOOD. Win!

RallyX is scary!:

There are now plenty of AWD and FWD cars that can be purchased for cheap. Also, there are plenty that are Nationally competitive. Is there an inherent cost? You betcha. However, I am still running Rally tires from 2006 that still have plenty of life left in them. I don't have to have a huge tire budget like I would for a Nationally competitive autoX car, but I can be Nationally competitive in the right car for less. More of the "cost" goes to maintenance, but I don't necessarily see it as "scary" when the entry level is cheaper and the cost to run an event is less, and you get "more". It is definitely "different" however.

Member/Driver Retention:

There are A LOT of IBMers in this club, IIRC. Isn't the best and first thing to do is to check statistics and figure out how to make things better for the users? I think there is some work to do in this area, but THSCC does have eMail addresses. We also DO have statistics on the people who entered RallyX events for the past 6 years or so. Why not send out a questionnaire to figure out how this can make it better for all those who have taken a chance? This may have been thought of, but if the program is under concern, it would seem sensible to get as much information as possible.

New Course Locations:

Like it's autoX big brother, we need to look at new locations. While not a favorite of everyone, OCS type locations with clay based soil is better for the cars, better for the track maintenance, and better for lots of cars to be run on. We are fortunate and unfortunate to have two radically different soil types within an hour of each other (sandy soil and clay). However, this is something that should be addressed, if not already (project owned by an individual).

Club Cars (this is a "nice to have in the right situation" feature):

With the cost of a rallyX car, I think it would be a "huge win" to have "club cars". With this, you have arrive and drive, and relatively low maintenance costs. This would prb be a program that would have to be owned by the right VP. Still if "money" is an issue, this might be a "for later" item.


Summary:

I think there are valid points, but I also think that it is an exciting area. It does feel more "laid back", and it is a "less defined" structure as autoX. It is just "different". Also, since it isn't as mature as autoX, there is a lot of room for THSCC to be a leader in this area, or at least a good representative, such as it is in autoX.

Thanks for the time, and as I have time, I will bolster the effort THSCC has. I would like to dedicate more time, but a Dad of 1+1 needs to ensure the home front is secure and happy before he plays/works for himself. Thanks for the understanding and open/positive discussion!

- brian

I think one thing Rallycross suffers from is not enough regulars. I would attribute this to two things. Many people are like Brian or Mike in that they can't commit to all of the events due to family obligations or like me in that there are so many THSCC/other motorsport events, something has to give and ends up being rallycross. You may ask, "why do you pick to skip rallycross?" I have a lot of fun at rallycross, but sharing a car with 4 people gets old when inevitably you end up having to run last in the worst course conditions. I mention that because Brian mentioned "club cars" and you could end up with the same situation there if you have too many people driving them. Who gets to run first in the prime conditions? How do you determine that fairly when everyone pays the same amount to rent them? That might be a good idea if you can find someone that is willing to maintain them, but I would suggest you limit the availability of the cars to folks showing up for their first or second time. One of the issues with rallycross is that it just breaks even for the most part. Buying/maintaining club cars isn't going to help that without a hefty rental fee.

As far as the dirty cones go, some people just like to whine.

Just my $0.02.

_________________
Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

While RallyX can add dirt to cones (and of course we don't want RallyX mud caked on cones that we load back in the trailer), I know that I've put some black marks and scratches on cones at AutoX. I don't mind if the cones aren't shiny.

_________________
91 RallyX Audi Coupe Quattro
89 A-Team Astro-van demo derby winner at 2011 NC State Fair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MrZqwENRqU)
Broken 89 Subaru GL-10 RallyX turbo wagon - need to sell it and all my parts cars

it seems like the rallyx guys do a good job using only our cones. I am one of the few folks that does play on both sides of the feild. And there are some folks complaining about our cones but as some of the autox's our cones get used and not put back on the correct side and then it is automatically the rallyx guys faults.

I love the rallyx program and I try and put event notifications on every car forum that I am on. I also pimp out my daily driver and 3 drivers. The rallyx program is a good program and there are LOTS of people that do what they can when they can to make sure it is succesful.

Locations, I have racked my brains to see if there is anyone that i know with enough land or a feild to rent. The surface truly doesnt matter in the long scheme of things.

I also think that we need to have more help on "clean up days" that way we can take care of the places we have to use

Also we need to figure out how to get the guys that come in the for their first event that we figure out y some dont come back.

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[color=#FFFFFF][/color]http://www.usedmiatapartsonline.com for all your used miata parts needs
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2000 miata se Estreet,going to rally
2004 mazdaspeed miata bsp #77
shifter kart also(someone buy this $1500)

Brian, I appreciate your enthusiasm on this. Many of these are points that your VP's are already working as part of the program's 2010 goals. I'll touch on just a few points:

1) profitability - none of our programs need to be money makers, but we do need to aim to do more than just "break even" event to event on high level expenses. A lot of the discussion around this focussed on the 25 participant minimum we imposed (and unfortunately had to enforce) last year. It should be noted that at 25 participants, we still lose money at an event, but it keeps the bleeding manageable. Measures were taken this year (event fees and some expenses) to help this and ensure longer term viability of the program.

2) club cars - as a participant, I think this idea has merit, and could help get people "in the door" to the program. As an officer, however, I don't think this idea could fly - simply too much liability on the club. We're simply not in that "business". As mentioned already, there's also a huge logistical overhead in making this work - we can barely get our bus and trailer to events these days, let alone "extra" club cars. What happens when one breaks, needs fuel, maintenance, etc... IMO, this is better left to the participants to arrange/manage.

3) dirty cones - basically, for any number of possible reasons, very dirty RallyX cones got mixed in with the AutoX cones on multiple occasions last year. This bothers some folks, and I think it's fair to suggest that it's a fair concern. To help keep the cones separated this year, we've painted the bases of the RallyX cones blue (and marked the right side cone storage area to match). The RallyX folks (VP's) have agreed to keep the Autocross cones clean, and the Autocross folks can now clearly identify the "RallyX cones" so they can be kept separated at course cleanup time (if used at all). We're in a "wait and see" mode to see how these "policies" help this situation.

Here's hoping for a solid 2010 RallyX season!

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

Dustin, I didnt know this and used cones fromt he right side of the trailer at the event I chaired. Maybe a note would help... or put this in the comentary for the event chairs. Please dont ban me from the club for useing the wrong cones

Hmmm, ok. The ends of the rows of cones were labeled for this reason, but clearly we need to do some education here....

_________________
Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

Dustin:

Thanks for the information.

I figured the intelligent minds had already discussed and come up with solutions to some issues, but as a member, I had no clue what had been resolved. Maybe this is covered in the H&T? I apologize as I am still trying to catch up on reading all H&Ts from 2006 to present.

As for cones moving forward, I am charing the event this weekend. I will ensure we are only using the "blue" cones. As long as the RallyX VPs let the chairs know this information, then it is no big deal. We will also try to ensure the bus is clean after course pickup.

Thanks again for your replies and your intelligent officer decisions and inputs.

- brian

Sorry again, I had no cule. I was told to grab cones, and I did. I know now though.

Different strokes for different folks. I love how rallycrossing is different than autocrossing and track. Perhaps some members should come out and take a ride this weekend.

I'm willing to take a rider anytime. I promise it will be entertaining.

The classes allow for different cars and level of driving ability. The "Hockey" class has some fast cars and probably the best drivers. Street tire classes has a great variety of cars from fast POS' like the General to some nice street cars.

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Rubbin' is Racin'

As one who has never RX'd but wants to try when I get a chance. I have a 2 year old free coupon from one of the Xmas parties ...or is it 3... it seems to me that as long as that group can fiscally justify its existence (based on what the THSCC officers deem as justification) then the rest of the club should stop whining. If we have some dirty cones that are used for RX, maybe that will encourage course designers to design less cone-intensive courses. (training exercise)

As far as being "Scary" WTF - if it scares you don't do it.

The biggest thing is that if there was any idea of RX being shut down, then it should (and would expect that it would be) brought up by the board and discussed with the RXVP as part of that - then the decision/status could be communicated to the community. I don't think that it would be conducted as part of a "whisper" campaign. - If so maybe the whisperers should be called out.

Just my $/.02.

As far as rallyX goes in general, I love the lack of vechile restriction the way THSCC runs it. There are "killer" cars, but with a large permutation "pond" available, it is just up to a member to bring a car they like/can afford and win (Eagle Talon, anyone?). That works great for where the program is now.

For course layout -- a Kevin Allen course has very few cones. A Brian Herring course will have few cones. Mostly, since I have been around, we always use very few cones. Just limit the number of Blue footed cones, and that is all the training needed!

For "whispers", I am not calling anyone out. I am not looking for witch hunts. All I want to know is how I can help out the rallyXVPs (Thanks guys!) and how much time I need to invest (which is very precious to me right now!).

Thanks all, and I hope that anyone who comes out this weekend has a good time!

- brian