Extreme Geez, GTechPros, worth the money?

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:15 pm

Ok, the CRX will be getting some new parts soon, the sum of which should yield much better power and handling. As an engineer, quantification of each of the mods would just be cool. I'd like to get the Geez system, but am having a hard time stomaching the $400 (plus a palm). However, IF this is truely a usefull tool for developing our autocross skills, I may give myself an early B-day present.

On the other hand, G-tech Pro has 2 units that provide varrying levels of data ($50 for the basic, $200 for the more advanced, neither come close to the Geez for all-out data logging). The basic one is affordable, but may not be all that useful. The more expensive one seems too expensive for something I can't interface to a PC.

Any comments / experiences / thoughts? Any of these worth the money? Better yet, anybody want to "rent" theirs out for a while? :-)

Diane Hall · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:23 pm

I've seen them at national events (the Geez Cube). Locally, I think Eric Peterson has one (or used to). You'll get some responses.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:30 pm

Dustin,

I've used the GEEZ a lot in my FF. It was VERY helpful as a driver aid, even for an old dog like me. The most useful aspect to me was using it to compare segment times between runs so that I could tell where I gained or lost time on different runs. Especially useful if you blow part of a run but want to learn if something you tried on another part of a run helped or hurt. I rarely use the g's measurements to compare setups . . . too many variables (driver and course conditions) most of the time. The g data is useful to determine acceleration/braking/cornering ball park numbers. Usage wasn't too useful to me but apparently it is for lots of people. It could be because "formula car on slicks" has such high peak's that the portions of the course that cannot be at the peaks bring the average down . . . or it could be a slow driver.

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:24 pm

Geez is a pretty useful tool once you get the hang of using it. There's so much potential information there, it can be overwhelming trying to interpret it all, but they've made it pretty easy to get some of the most important stuff. Unlike Dick, I find Usage to be one of the most useful. It pretty quickly points out areas where you aren't giving it all it can take. There may be a good reason for low usage in an area, but it quickly identifies areas to look at more closely.

One of the biggest values, though, is to a slower driver also competing in the car. There, in a pretty simple form, you can see where time is being made or lost compared to your codriver. But often there are segments of a course where the "slower" driver is faster, so the benefit does go both ways.

They're not that expensive, either. I'd say it's definitely worth it for someone who is serious about improving their driving.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:14 am

Carl Fisher wrote:

Unlike Dick, I find Usage to be one of the most useful. It pretty quickly points out areas where you aren't giving it all it can take.

I've seen you drive. You definitely use more of the potential of your car(s) than I use of mine. Fortunately 1.4 g cornering vs. a potential of 1.5 is a lot of fun anyway!

More seriously, the usage function is a proven tool for many people in the stock and street prepared classes. Looking at the g-g (friction circle) numbers is also useful.

If you go the GEEZ route, sign up for the team.net GEEZ list. Also, before buying a PDA check with the GEEZ folk to make sure you get one that is proven to work with GEEZ.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:41 am

I've dabbled (minimally with the GEEZ) and have an older G-Tech Pro (from back in the days when it was the only one they sold).

The basic G-Tech is possibly worse than useless because you can't really trus tthe numbers. Mine is really just good if you are into power mods and drag racing, and it isn't very good at that. You are welcome to borrow it.

The GEEZ is about the only thing that is worth a damn in the price range (there are now some really cool things that are more expensive). The GEEZ has a few issues though.

1) old technology: It REQUIRES a parallel port to function, my Mac (I did get everything to work under Virtual PC) has no parallel port, Sally's Windows laptop has no parallel port, therefore it is WORTHLESS to us.

2) The Palm is for data acquisition only. You can't view the files or manipulate them in anyway without Windows (on a machine with a parallel port). This means you need a bulky laptop to *try* and get any real time information. I've also been told that it takes a bit of doing to make the files look right, so comparing between runs may be difficult anyhow (don't quote me on that).

Why the parallel port? Harware key, that's why. We're talking '70's technology here. I emailed them and they claim a USB version is in the works. Who knows when though.

Scott

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:51 am

I bought a GEEZ system last year. I don't think I am anywhere close to using it's full potential, but it has helped me so far. Like others I have found the "Usage" info to be helpful. Within a few runs it showed that I have a habit of coasting a bit before getting on the brakes. Usage dropped WAY down while that was going on. You have have to learn to look at the data and figure out what you are not doing right and that can be a bit of a steep learning curve.

On the down side, I think the software for the PC is SO 1990's and could use some serious work. I think that the last software update was in 2001 but that was small tweaks and I am guessing that the bulk of the software is 5+ years old. It is not that it is bad, it just hasn't aged well and could be more user friendly.

I think when I purchased it they mentioned that there was going to be a free software upgrade (that would also ditch the Borland Database Engine that it uses), but who knows when/if that will happen. Also as with any software that requires a dongle, I am always afraid I am going to loose the dongle.

Honestly I will also mention that having a video camera recording each run (for review purposes) has also worked well for me. I don't have a co-driver and I generally end up not riding along with people (to shy to ask I guess). Reviewing video after each run is much like walking the course for the nth time, but this time at speed.

Would I buy the GEEZ all over again? Yes.

Oh, and I am using a Palm M100 as my capture device.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:56 am

I also assume you have visited the GEEZ web page... http://www.extremegeez.com/

It is kind of buried on their site, but there is a "tour" of the software here... http://www.extremegeez.com/GT_Main.html It is an image of the software and you can click most anything on the image to get detailed info about it.

If you buy a used one (eBay, etc.), make sure you get the dongle with it. Otherwise the software will not work and a new dongle is basically the same price as the software package ($$$).

Kevin Hoff · **Posted:** Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:19 pm

GEEZ systems occasionally show up on e-bay. They seem to go for around $200. It also happens that I'm selling my cube and software/dongle for that price! :lol:

I used GEEZ for most of the 2002 season and part of the 2003 season. The information it gave, particularly usage/smoothness/aggressiveness, was very helpful -- especially when I had a co-driver. I've stopped using it because I'm easily distracted and found that worrying about whether the cube was recording properly took away from my concentration on a run. If you're not a borderline ADD spaz like me I think this wouldn't be an issue.

Byron and his new business partner Lindsay Davenport have supposedly restarted development and dropping the Parallel dongle and Borland engine are supposedly the top priority items. They have been very helpful to me even though I bought my system used.

--Kevin H.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:38 pm

Kevin Hoff wrote:

...I've stopped using it because I'm easily distracted and found that worrying about whether the cube was recording properly took away from my concentration on a run. If you're not a borderline ADD spaz like me I think this wouldn't be an issue.

This was an issue for me at first. My solution was to alter my "start of run" ritual. This inclused turning on the video camera and GEEZ well in advance and using the same steps each time. It wastes video tape, but at least I think about the run as I move toward the start and not if the video is working or not. I also had to just eventually trust that GEEZ was going to start on launch as it is supposed to do.

My biggest issue is remembering to come to a complete stop after the run. Having a known zero MPH start and stop makes it easy to adjust/analyze the data after the fact.

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Extreme Geez, GTechPros, worth the money?

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