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 Post subject: Do I really need strut tower braces?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:35 pm 
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I noticed several of the cars at the last rallyx had strut tower braces on the front and back. Do they actually have an effect on performance, or are they there to keep my car from falling apart?

Thanks...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:29 pm 
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it is my no wrench turning understanding that a strut tower brace serves more for handling enhancement than it does for reinforcement of your shock towers Michael. while they will provide some aditional support, i don't believe they are your best option for strucural integrity.


just out of curiosity Dude, has anyone ever talked you into to taking a class with them so as you would bring up the curve? i could really use a break here, if you know what i mean. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:17 pm 
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steve remchak wrote:
it is my no wrench turning understanding that a strut tower brace serves more for handling enhancement than it does for reinforcement of your shock towers Michael. while they will provide some aditional support, i don't believe they are your best option for strucural integrity.


just out of curiosity Dude, has anyone ever talked you into to taking a class with them so as you would bring up the curve? i could really use a break here, if you know what i mean. :lol:


Steve - I don't have your member app in front of me, but I'll bet you didn't check the "social" box. Good grief.

Michael - since the unit body of your car is made of welded-up sheet metal, it's going to flex, and your shock towers will move side to side under load, usually independently of each other, which delays the effects your steering inputs, and momentarily affects your wheel camber. The more common strut tower braces laterally connect the tops of the shock towers, and many front strut tower braces also connect to the firewall for additional rigidity. Depending on the car, you may be able to add lateral braces that connect points lower in the chassis. My old Mustang has a "G Load" brace, that connects the open end of the U-shaped subframe that supports the engine and that the lower arms of the front suspension bolt to. Keeping the ends of the "U" from pushing together during cornering helps maintain both camber and toe-in. Unfortunately, you really can't see that kind of brace from above, so there's no benefit in chrome plating one :) And then there are "subframe connectors", that run front to back under the passenger compartment, to prevent twisting of the center of the body. These also improve steering response and add strength. All in all, you can spend a lot of money on this stuff.

As always, read your rulebook to see how these changes affect your classing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:25 am 
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Its rallycross, classing is basically how many wheels are powered, how big is the engine, and what kind of tire do you have. . .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:42 am 
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BriceJohnson wrote:
Its rallycross, classing is basically how many wheels are powered, how big is the engine, and what kind of tire do you have. . .


Yup, I noticed that. While AutoCross is strict about stock vs. non-stock, there's not enough cars in the club's RallyCross so nearly everyone seems to have modified their cars.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:46 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Michael - since the unit body of your car is made of welded-up sheet metal, it's going to flex, and your shock towers will move side to side under load, usually independently of each other, which delays the effects your steering inputs, and momentarily affects your wheel camber.


Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I was reading on the Forester boards that the construction of the struts in front is so solid that braces are rarely needed, but I did notice the rear braces in the back of Jeremy's Forester and was wondering if they would help reduce the oversteer in the stock Forester.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 10:25 am 
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BriceJohnson wrote:
Its rallycross, classing is basically how many wheels are powered, how big is the engine, and what kind of tire do you have. . .


that is only here locally, If we had more entrants consistantly we would prob have to change and add modified class and the such.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:22 am 
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Michael Czeiszperger wrote:
Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I was reading on the Forester boards that the construction of the struts in front is so solid that braces are rarely needed, but I did notice the rear braces in the back of Jeremy's Forester and was wondering if they would help reduce the oversteer in the stock Forester.


The forester boards probably aren't really talking about the stresses that Rallycross can put on a car though. . .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:28 am 
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Michael Czeiszperger wrote:
I did notice the rear braces in the back of Jeremy's Forester and was wondering if they would help reduce the oversteer in the stock Forester.


If you have a Subaru that oversteers I'd leave it alone. Everyone I've driven pushes like dump truck!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:42 am 
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Quote:
If you have a Subaru that oversteers I'd leave it alone. Everyone I've driven pushes like dump truck!


You're right, I meant to say "understeer". It does push like a dump truck and I'm trying to fix it. The first mod was a 20mm rear-sway bar to replace the stock 10mm bar.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:29 pm 
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Michael Czeiszperger wrote:
Quote:
If you have a Subaru that oversteers I'd leave it alone. Everyone I've driven pushes like dump truck!


You're right, I meant to say "understeer". It does push like a dump truck and I'm trying to fix it. The first mod was a 20mm rear-sway bar to replace the stock 10mm bar.


PM Kevin Allen. He's worked the suspension on every Subaru model they've ever produced. Really.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Chris Landi wrote:
PM Kevin Allen. He's worked the suspension on every Subaru model they've ever produced. Really.


Yup, he already helped by actually installing some used struts for me. I'm going to corner him at the next RallyCross and see if he'll drive it and give some advice. Part of the problem is I don't really know what the car is supposed to feel like in order to gauge correctly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Does the Forrester have one of those impossibly exotic independent rear suspensions? If so, how about dialing in a little toe-out at the rear? That should loosen it up. Might put you in the ditch in the rain, but we have to make sacrifices if we want to go fast. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:54 am 
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Arthur McDonald wrote:
Does the Forrester have one of those impossibly exotic independent rear suspensions?


You're joking, right?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:48 am 
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Michael Czeiszperger wrote:
Arthur McDonald wrote:
Does the Forrester have one of those impossibly exotic independent rear suspensions?


You're joking, right?


Understand that both of Art's cars have solid rear axles, so anything with an IRS is considered "impossibly exotic" to him.

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