Do I need new shocks?

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Any worn component that connects the wheel to the car (ball joint, wheel bearing, shock absorber, springs, bushings, etc.) can cause tire cupping.

Shocks/struts don't last 100K miles. I don't care if they are made in Japan or not. For street driving I'm sure you can run them 100K. As long as you accept things like tires cupping.

I'll bet if you try you could go 200K on them without them leaking or collapsing. Doesn't mean they are any good though. My Celica has 220K on it. I think it has had 1 strut change. My tires wear uneven too. Thing is that it isn't my AX car. It's just a beater to drive to work. I probably won't replace the struts.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Stephen Westerfield wrote:

Sean O'Connell wrote:

Brice, i dont think this is a new issue your car is having. i got your old set of azenis from a year or more ago and they have a strange ware pattern similar to what you described your current tires looking like. i believe it is referred to as scalloped tread wear on the inside tread blocks and is probably due to worn suspension parts. possibly the shocks, possibly bushing or ball joints. or a bad alignment if you have gone that long without one.

Funny you should mention that. I've got Brice's last pair of Dunlops in my garage right now (courtesy of Kendt) and two of the tires (I assume the ones you were running on the rear) have the same scalloped tread wear as well. The other two the wear is very consistant across the tire.

Were those MY beat up dunlops Judy was running today?

The answer for now is that I'm getting new tires and getting an alignment, and as soon as I have the $ (probably January) I'm gonna be getting new shocks. The shocks are clearly worn, but not blown, and budget dictates that I need to deal with them as they are for now.

Sorry for spreading my beat up, scalloped tires to the club. They are worth what you paid for them. . .

Stephen Westerfield · **Posted:** Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:18 pm

No, Judi was running on Kendt's beat up old Dunlops today (thanks again Kendt!). We tried fitting your old 225's on the car and they were just a we bit too wide.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Kendt has a VARIETY of old beat up dunlops huh. I guess he just collects them. I'll have another set for him soon, although these are worse off than most of the sets I've had. I may actually throw these away. . . after Danville (yeah, the recurring theme of this thread is that I'm cheap). That'll be just in time to take advantage of the $60 rebate on a new set. In the meantime, i'll have to drive the wife's car anytime there is a chance of rain.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

So, I think I may have another potential culprit for the odd wear. Apparently rear trailing arm bushings wear out frequently on my car.

The bushing that 9Ya02-120K boilts into. If this bushing were worn, it would definitely cause the wear I'm seeing would it not (especially if there was some static toe out in the rear as well)?

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:27 pm

Cupping
Cups or scalloped dips appearing around the edge of the tread on one side or the other, almost always indicate worn (sometimes bent) suspension parts. Adjustment of wheel alignment alone will seldom cure the problem. Any worn component that connects the wheel to the car (ball joint, wheel bearing, shock absorber, springs, bushings, etc.) can cause this condition. Worn components should be replaced with new ones. The worn tire should be balanced and possibly moved to a different location on the car. Occasionally, wheels that are out of balance will wear like this, but wheel imbalance usually shows up as bald spots between the outside edges and center of the tread.
Right on the money Brice

clinehall · **Posted:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:51 pm

steve remchak wrote:

[] were it me i would have swapped them at about 60k, :roll:

You or Dave would have swapped?

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:00 pm

clinehall wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

[] were it me i would have swapped them at about 60k, :roll:

You or Dave would have swapped?

Duh! When Steve has his hands on a wrench it's to hand it to someone that knows how to actually use it.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

to conclude this thread, I checked the trailing arm bushings and could find almost no play in them whatsoever although I did find that one of my rear sway bar endlinks was REALLY loose).

I found a pretty sweet deal on some Konis ($575 shipped) so I think I'm just gonna pull the trigger on them.

Question: Given the odd wear on these tires, should I wait until I get new tires on to get the car aligned? I know the new shocks could potentially require a new alignment, but I'll probably get the Konis before Danville. I'd like to use these tires at Danville though just to burn up whats left of them.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:41 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

Question: Given the odd wear on these tires, should I wait until I get new tires on to get the car aligned? I know the new shocks could potentially require a new alignment, but I'll probably get the Konis before Danville. I'd like to use these tires at Danville though just to burn up whats left of them.

If you're going to get it aligned, do it just after you get the Konis. No reason to wait until you get new tires - a properly aligned car will be a properly aligned car, regardless of how worn out the tires are.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:24 pm

Vincent Keene wrote:

clinehall wrote:

steve remchak wrote:

[] were it me i would have swapped them at about 60k, :roll:

You or Dave would have swapped?

Duh! When Steve has his hands on a wrench it's to hand it to someone that knows how to actually use it.

Hey - Not that I would never comment on Steve's infrequent use of car tools, but there are pictures of him doing his own brakes at VIR in May. :thumbsup:

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:11 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

Question: Given the odd wear on these tires, should I wait until I get new tires on to get the car aligned? I know the new shocks could potentially require a new alignment, but I'll probably get the Konis before Danville. I'd like to use these tires at Danville though just to burn up whats left of them.

If you're going to get it aligned, do it just after you get the Konis. No reason to wait until you get new tires - a properly aligned car will be a properly aligned car, regardless of how worn out the tires are.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one Karl. I'd get the car aligned after you get new tires. I've seen many cases where worn tires can have a surprisingly pronounced affect on static alignment.

Jim

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:16 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

I'd have to disagree with you on that one Karl. I'd get the car aligned after you get new tires. I've seen many cases where worn tires can have a surprisingly pronounced affect on static alignment.

Jim

Alright, you've got my curiosity up. Let's say, for example, I drive a car to the alignment place on street tires. Then, I take it to an event and put Hoosiers on it. Are you saying that the alignment can then be different?

(Let's assume, for simplicity sake, that the wheel dimensions are identical between the street wheels and the Hoosier wheels)

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:24 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

Alright, you've got my curiosity up. Let's say, for example, I drive a car to the alignment place on street tires. Then, I take it to an event and put Hoosiers on it. Are you saying that the alignment can then be different?

(Let's assume, for simplicity sake, that the wheel dimensions are identical between the street wheels and the Hoosier wheels)

Nope, not saying that at all. Well, unless your street tires and Hoosiers have significantly different wear patterns on them.

What I am saying is that if you have well worn tires (street or "race") and you put fresh ones on, you might see some slight alignment changes. If the tires are worn fairly evenly, you might not see any change at all.

On the other hand, if they are worn unevenly (or "oddly" in Brice's case), you might get some surprising camber and/or toe changes. I've seen it with my own eyes in plenty of cases. Would you align your car on uneven ground?

If you're going to spend good money on a precision alignment, you might as well remove as many as variables as you can. As always, YMMV...

Jim

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:05 pm

If you have tires worn IMPROPERLY through a problem you have with your suspension and you're planning new tires, do the alignment very quickly after putting the new tires on and fixing the suspension problem. Doing it with IMPROPERLY worn tires will throw the alignment off a little.

And yes, I've seen alignment differences with OE type tires versus Hoosiers. You have to remember that you're putting a tire on the car that's MUCH wider, probably MUCH flatter in profile, and with a MUCH stiffer sidewall. That's going to change the leverage that your camber can put on the suspension with the same weight sitting on it by a noticeable amount.

We always align with race tires. If that's not practical then you'll be "close enough" on good OE tires. But I wouldn't do it with strangely worn OE tires.

--Donnie

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