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 Post subject: Local source for metric Zirk grease fitting
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Ideally I am looking for a M10x1.0 Zirk. I know that is not a common size. Anyone know of a place I might find that locally?

If you are curious, I am rebuilding some old calipers in which the pistons are really stuck. I have typically used compressed air to do this, but they refuse to move. So I am moving onto the grease gun method to push the pistons out.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:01 pm 
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This isn't the answer you're looking for, but I'll say it anyway. Have you tried soaking the caliper in some sort of solvent? Like in a parts washing tank, or heck, maybe even in a puddle of penetrating oil. I'm just wondering if there's an easier way to do what you're trying to do.

As for the fittings - I've got no idea what size they are, but some of the Energy Suspension swaybar bushings for sale at auto parts stores have zerk fittings built into the d-brackets. Maybe you could use one of them?

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:07 pm 
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If Wilder's Fasteners doesn't have it, you don't need it*. http://local.triangle411.com/Wilder--27 ... .home.html

(The lone exception being a 10,9 M7x1.0 bolt which would be an upgrade from a Ford factory part)

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:08 pm 
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I haven't tried soaking yet, but might do that. I was able to use a c-clamp and get the pistons to move, but I still can't get them to pop out via air.

Apparently the method that many use is to just use a regular M10x1.0 bolt, drill a hole through it, tap it and put a common (i.e. non-metric) Zirk on it. But I don't have any Zirk fittings handly so I figured if I have to buy one, might as well go for the gold and find an M10x1.0.

The downside of the grease gun method is that you have a lot of grease to clean out of the caliper once you are done.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:13 pm 
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It's funny you mention the M7 hardware. These particular calipers use M7 hardware (Ribe head) and it's my understanding that it's nearly impossible to find good M7 hardware. Particulary cap head style. So you do everything to not destroy the factory hardware.

I will probably try Wilders at lunch tomorrow. They are pretty close to work. Any other suggestions are welcome incase they don't have it.

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Richard Casto
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:15 pm 
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Richard Casto wrote:
The downside of the grease gun method is that you have a lot of grease to clean out of the caliper once you are done.


That's why I was trying to come up with an alternative method. That sounds like a big mess.

Have you tried twisting the piston around? I'm assuming you're trying to disassemble this thing in order to rebuild it, so if you booger up the seal, it shouldn't be a big deal.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:18 pm 
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One other thing. Richard, I'm assuming this is for the 914. If you're on roadraceautox.com, user bam914 is one of the most expert 914 guys in the country. He just finished building an absolutely gorgeous one for racing in ITB. It's a museum piece.

http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread ... hlight=914

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:21 pm 
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Richard Casto wrote:
It's funny you mention the M7 hardware. These particular calipers use M7 hardware (Ribe head) and it's my understanding that it's nearly impossible to find good M7 hardware. Particulary cap head style. So you do everything to not destroy the factory hardware.

I will probably try Wilders at lunch tomorrow. They are pretty close to work. Any other suggestions are welcome incase they don't have it.


What pitch and length and hardness? Where in the caliper is the bolt (what job does it do, anything in single shear)? The reason why I ask is because if you could use a "cap screw" type, I might be able to hook you up with a part number for something that exists in Contour transmission towers.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:22 pm 
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Karl Shultz wrote:
Richard Casto wrote:
The downside of the grease gun method is that you have a lot of grease to clean out of the caliper once you are done.


That's why I was trying to come up with an alternative method. That sounds like a big mess.

Have you tried twisting the piston around? I'm assuming you're trying to disassemble this thing in order to rebuild it, so if you booger up the seal, it shouldn't be a big deal.


I am doing a 100% disassemble, but I am trying avoid using tools directly on the pistons due to potential for damage. New pistons are $32 each and I would need four of those. Even then, I have taken the dust seal off one and they don't look too good as it is, so I may end up replacing them anyhow.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Karl Shultz wrote:
One other thing. Richard, I'm assuming this is for the 914. If you're on roadraceautox.com, user bam914 is one of the most expert 914 guys in the country. He just finished building an absolutely gorgeous one for racing in ITB. It's a museum piece.

http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread ... hlight=914


The brakes are for the 914.

I checked out the thread and it looks pretty cool. Wish it had more photos. It will be interesting to see how competitive the car is. In general the 914 has a tough time these days in road racing as there seems to not be a class that it is particularly the car to have. In PCA racing, it tends to do better than the 911 when the two are built to the same level.

Blake apparently works for Jake Raby who is “The” guru when it comes to Type 4 engine (the engine that is in the four cylinder 914). Using modern techniques not available to VW and Porsche back in the late 60’s early 70’s he has taken that engine to new levels. His engine kits are popular but expensive.

Wes Eargle wrote:
What pitch and length and hardness? Where in the caliper is the bolt (what job does it do, anything in single shear)? The reason why I ask is because if you could use a "cap screw" type, I might be able to hook you up with a part number for something that exists in Contour transmission towers.


Here is what the calipers look like...

Image

These particular calipers are ATE that was used on the rear of 911s for many years. They are a common upgrade for 914s. The design is a split caliper meaning four through bolts hold the two halves together. Additionally there is a spacer between the two halves that allows various width rotors to be used. The four bolts are mostly in tension to clamp the two halves, but there is also a shear aspect. I have never heard of one of these coming apart on a car due to bolt failure.

There is a reputable guy in the Porsche world who rebuilds Porsche calipers (photo above is of his work) and he reuses the factory hardware once they have been cleaned and re-plated. I am just finishing Carroll Smith's book “Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook” and am a bit leery of reusing the hardware based upon what he says, but then again he pretty much says to only use aerospace hardware and toss everything after it has been used once.

Right now, I am going to try to re-use the hardware. I have heard of some people using ARP hardware (common supplier for quality rod end bolts), but even then it’s not a perfect match. The biggest issue is that the bolts need to be cap head since the heads are inset into the caliper so if you was to use a regular hex head (or other external style) you can’t get a tool on it. ATE used what is known as a RIBE head, which is sort of like an old-school version of the more modern Torx head (Torx bits almost fit, but not quite), but is pretty much not used today.

Since once you split the caliper you are no longer able to pressurize the chamber behind the pistons, I want to get the pistons out before I split them. Once I get them split I can measure them. For example I don’t know the thread pitch right now, but am pretty sure they are M7.

Probably more info than you care to know. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 12:56 am 
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Have you considered just hooking the calipers back up to the flex line, dump some fluid into the M/C, and use the brake pedal to push the pistons out? I assume the car is in a state of disassembly which would preclude this -- but maybe you could "borrow" your civic if the fittings are the same. Then you'd have the hassle of rebleeding your daily driver brakes though...

I'm just thinking you already have an excellent source of hydraulic pressure built into the car ... use it!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:51 am 
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Mike that is the other way to do it and if you have a working system to use it is better than the grease gun. But mine is 100% apart an packed away. Good idea on the Civic, but as you say that has it's issues as well.

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Richard Casto
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:41 am 
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That's the caliper I got on the rear on my 911. Richards, I need to change the pad and bleed the brake on the Porsche for the coming CMP event in June. If you want you can come home and we can hook them up to the brake line and see if we can pop them out.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:39 am 
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Thanks Patrice. If I don't get something worked out myself in the next few days I may take you up on that offer.

Unrelated item... Patrice, you should post a link to your thread on the Pelican Parts forum about your active rear wing your are building!

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Richard Casto
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Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:33 am 
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Richard,

might want to check Napa or Carquest, especially one of the older stores. I know I've seen little plastic blister packs of metric grease fittings at several of those stores. They looked like they were slow-moving based on the amount of dust on the packages.


EDIT:


ding ding ding!!! looks like we have a winner:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none


OR

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200375487


OR


http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/de ... 006&ucst=t






;)


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