track alignment setting question

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 9:30 am

I have a question for those of you that autox and track your car. I have camber plates installed on the car and basically have 2 settings that I use, one for street and one for autox. Street sets the toe at zero and camber at roughly -2. For autox, toe is at 1/8” out total and at -3 for camber. My question is for the upcoming VIR full HPDE event. Where should I set the camber plates? This is for school, no money or trophies here. My inclination is to leave the car in the street setting so I don’t kill the tires or maybe move slightly in between the 2 marks.

Any recommendations?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 9:58 am

Rodney your car and your tires will appreciate some camber on the track. how much i can't say. call Mark. maybe get an alingment.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 10:13 am

steve remchak wrote:

Rodney your car and your tires will appreciate some camber on the track. how much i can't say. call Mark. maybe get an alingment.

I have the car setup for autox and don't really want to get another alignment since I'm spending enough money for just the school. I'm just looking for a compromise in setting the front plates for the HPDE.

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 11:22 am

Rodney, my guess is---- use your autocross settings. Its the turning that kills tires not the straights. While your not turning as agressively in track your turning at higher speeds, so the result will be the same. You'll scrub off the outer edges of your tires with street settings. Plus the fact that you'll have less contact with the track surface, and consequently less cornering capability. Thats only my uneducated guess, but I'm sticking with it.

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 11:48 am

I'd be inclined to use the auto-x settings but you might want to be careful if those settings make for a loose car at lower speeds. When you get to the higher speed track environment, things could get interesting quickly.

If that is the case, you might go for the full camber but back off on the toe. If you are getting the toe as a result of adjusting your camber plates, you can easily dial that back out with your tie rods. Somebody is bound to know the relationship between turns on a tie rod versus the change in toe for an E36.

If your auto-x alignment makes the car neutral or even pushy, I'd probably just run those settings and make any fine adjustments with air pressure assuming that is even needed.

Jim

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 12:04 pm

JamesFeinberg wrote:

I'd be inclined to use the auto-x settings but you might want to be careful if those settings make for a loose car at lower speeds. When you get to the higher speed track environment, things could get interesting quickly.

If that is the case, you might go for the full camber but back off on the toe. If you are getting the toe as a result of adjusting your camber plates, you can easily dial that back out with your tie rods. Somebody is bound to know the relationship between turns on a tie rod versus the change in toe for an E36.

If your auto-x alignment makes the car neutral or even pushy, I'd probably just run those settings and make any fine adjustments with air pressure assuming that is even needed.

Jim

That's exactly where the car is when it's in the autox mode w/ the camber plates. My concern was w/ the toe and somewhat high speed (probably a 110-115 on the straights), is I don't want the car to get unsettled. I guess the best thing I can do is experiment a little.

Any e36 owners have anything else to add?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 12:12 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

JamesFeinberg wrote:

I'd be inclined to use the auto-x settings but you might want to be careful if those settings make for a loose car at lower speeds. When you get to the higher speed track environment, things could get interesting quickly.

If that is the case, you might go for the full camber but back off on the toe. If you are getting the toe as a result of adjusting your camber plates, you can easily dial that back out with your tie rods. Somebody is bound to know the relationship between turns on a tie rod versus the change in toe for an E36.

If your auto-x alignment makes the car neutral or even pushy, I'd probably just run those settings and make any fine adjustments with air pressure assuming that is even needed.

Jim

That's exactly where the car is when it's in the autox mode w/ the camber plates. My concern was w/ the toe and somewhat high speed (probably a 110-115 on the straights), is I don't want the car to get unsettled. I guess the best thing I can do is experiment a little.

Any e36 owners have anything else to add?

yes, 110 - 115 mph on the back stretch is way slow. you should be over 125 by the braking zone for 14. press that go pedal noob. :lol:

Bernie Baake · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 2:51 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

My inclination is to leave the car in the street setting so I don’t kill the tires or maybe move slightly in between the 2 marks.

My bust I thought your concern was tires.
If handling is what your worried about, call Mark, he'll gladly give you recomendations and it won't cost you anything but a phone call.

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 4:42 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

That's exactly where the car is when it's in the autox mode w/ the camber plates. My concern was w/ the toe and somewhat high speed (probably a 110-115 on the straights), is I don't want the car to get unsettled. I guess the best thing I can do is experiment a little.

Any e36 owners have anything else to add?

I used to run my e36 M3 at track events with ~1/8" toe out up front and never had any stability issues. Granted, I had a stock suspension with non-adjustable Bilsteins but the car always tracked very straight at high speeds and under braking. The stock camber probably helped in the braking stability department a hair and the car would start to push pretty bad after the front tires got too much heat in them but that was coming from what felt like a neutral setup at lower speeds.

Jim

Mitchell Moore · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:11 pm **Posts:** 197

Run your autocross settings. I run 3.5 camber and 1/8 toe out. The car handles fine on the straights and pushes slightly in the turns. You definately want some toe in at the back end (1/16 I believe}. My front bar is full stiff and the rear bar is full loose.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Fri May 02, 2008 10:40 pm

Rodney, next time I see him, I'll ask Jimmy VerVaecke what alignment he had on his E36 M3 when he was tracking it. I've driven that car in anger a number of times, and it was absolutely brilliant.

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Sat May 03, 2008 10:05 am

Mitchell Moore wrote:

Run your autocross settings. I run 3.5 camber and 1/8 toe out. The car handles fine on the straights and pushes slightly in the turns. You definately want some toe in at the back end (1/16 I believe}. My front bar is full stiff and the rear bar is full loose.

Hey Mitch, that's good to hear that info. You're running the same setup as myself in respect to the sways and alignment. I guess I'll be running the autox settings come the end of May!

Thanks all!

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Tue May 06, 2008 11:43 am

Rodney - FWIW, when I was running my E36 328is in time trials and autocross, I found, via tire temperature testing, the same front alignment settings worked great for both track and autocross, about -3 degrees camber per side and ~1/8" total toe out, which matches your autocross alignment settings.

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

From what i gather most people run 0 toe for track and autox... Thats what i ran and the car turned in great in both cases. I'd just run one alignment (0 front toe, little toe in rear, -3 up front, -2 in the rear) and make your life easier.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed May 07, 2008 1:10 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

My concern was w/ the toe and somewhat high speed (probably a 110-115 on the straights)

I can do 115 on the front straight in my 3,150 lb Cavalier. Rodney, there is a small pedal on the right that has to be pressed harder to go faster...

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