Centering ring question

clinehall · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:41 pm

I hate to ask questions that so my ignorance but: I just got a set of Kosei K1 for tracking the mini. I have a lug conversion set on the car so do I need centering rings?

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

You mean you have studs in place of your lug bolts?

either way, yeh, you need the rings. the hubs bear the load not the studs/bolts.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:13 pm

DanDurusky wrote:

You mean you have studs in place of your lug bolts?

either way, yeh, you need the rings. the hubs bear the load not the studs/bolts.

There is no consensus on this one.

I have ran without the centering rings and everything was fine.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

DanDurusky wrote:

either way, yeh, you need the rings. the hubs bear the load not the studs/bolts.

*sigh* No the hubs don't perform that role. The lugnut torque holds the wheel against the face of the hub and ensures that they operate as one. There is no need for a hubcentering ring other than to make it easier for you to center the lugs in the wheel holes. If the hubs accepted any load, there wouldn't be *any* space between the hubs and wheel centers otherwise there would be failure. Are you insinuating that any wheel installation without hubcentering rings will fail?

Take a minute to consider why there are recessed and shaped holes in the wheels for the lugnuts to seat against -- if the hub did the work, the why bother? This is not a trick question.

BretLuter · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:00 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

DanDurusky wrote:

either way, yeh, you need the rings. the hubs bear the load not the studs/bolts.

*sigh* No the hubs don't perform that role. The lugnut torque holds the wheel against the face of the hub and ensures that they operate as one. There is no need for a hubcentering ring other than to make it easier for you to center the lugs in the wheel holes. If the hubs accepted any load, there wouldn't be *any* space between the hubs and wheel centers otherwise there would be failure. Are you insinuating that any wheel installation without hubcentering rings will fail?

Take a minute to consider why there are recessed and shaped holes in the wheels for the lugnuts to seat against -- if the hub did the work, the why bother? This is not a trick question.

OK Mr Wizard- why are some wheels HUBcentric and some LUGcentric??

I'm not disputing your sermon about what part bears the load- but 'splain the difference in these 2 if you would.....

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

All wheels (per application) are lugcentric. The issue is that not all manufacturers have consistent hub sizes. A "lugcentric" design allows for a more diverse set of hubs to be used. A hubcentering ring that may be used keeps Lothar the Wheel Installer from fuxoring up a good set of wheels by ensuring that it is easier to put the wheel in a better place for the final assembly of the lugnuts. It is the conical recess in the wheels that allows for final centering of the wheel on the hub face.

If you have a German car that uses wheel bolts, it is natural to desire a hubcentric wheel because it helps center things for you during installation.

Just because it's easier to install doesn't mean that the hub is doing any work for you post installation. If the hub actually did work, that means that there must be friction involved. Do you (the royal you) believe that the hub is actually touching the wheel enough to do work? IE did you use a hammer to beat the wheel onto the hub?

The wheels on my Miata have umpteen tens of thousands of miles on them on both the Miata and Contour, and I don't use hubcentering rings with them. How is this possible????

BretLuter · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:31 pm

meh.

I have found from personal experience that hubcentric rings can mean the difference between a front end vibration and a smooth as silk driving experience. I'll agree that they are not taking much, if any of the load, but I think they can be very important if the car is sensitive to small wheel/tire imbalances.

My 0.02 cents worth- worth exactly what you paid for it.

FWIW, the hubcentric (BMW) wheels that I've dealt with DO have a pretty tight fit on the hub, so I do think they are fully capable of taking some of the load, I'm just not convinced that they are designed to do so.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Guys, it's all about manufacturing tolerances and tolerance propagation. Getting those 4 or 5 lug holes, and the bolts, and the threads to all work together to perfectly center the wheel on the hub isn't easy. Hubcentric wheels are more likely to have less radial runout.

I agree that load isn't the issue. It's a question of tolerances. I too have run non-hubcentric and gotten vibrations just if the lugs weren't carefully torqued in sequence. Now on some big honkin' 4x4 a little runout isn't noticeable.

Cliff's notes -- when possible be hubcentric. Metal >> plastic for the rings. Not a safety issue if you run lug-centric (with tapered or conical lugs) but you increase your chances for vibration. Doesn't matter lugs vs bolts.

clinehall · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:51 am

DanDurusky wrote:

You mean you have studs in place of your lug bolts?

either way, yeh, you need the rings. the hubs bear the load not the studs/bolts.

Yep, put studs in, SO MUCH BETTER!

I am glad to see I was able bring a lively debate to the table. Now -Hillary or Obama?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:58 am

clinehall wrote:

DanDurusky wrote:

You mean you have studs in place of your lug bolts?

either way, yeh, you need the rings. the hubs bear the load not the studs/bolts.

Yep, put studs in, SO MUCH BETTER!

I am glad to see I was able bring a lively debate to the table. Now -Hillary or Obama?

First Settlers or Alfa? :?:

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