E36 Brakes - Soft Pedal

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:53 am

I read one of Rodney's old posts...

http://www.thscc.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5611&highlight=e36+brake

The trouble I'm having is that when I bleed the brakes, both rear calipers leak at the bleed screws when I loosen them. I can tighten them back, clean up the mess, continue bleeding and they're dry. I've gone through the bleed process 4-6 times and I think they're getting better.

Does this have anything to do with ABS? Man, I miss the days with the civic where bleeding brakes was a 15 minute job!

Oh, I've done the tests in the book, nothing points at the MS as a problem.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:07 am

Compared to other cars I have owned the M3 just has a long travel soft pedal. I have made a few changes that have helped a bit but it never feels "firm". I miss my STi brakes.

How many turns are you making on the bleed screw to loosen it?

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Compared to other cars I have owned the M3 just has a long travel soft pedal. I have made a few changes that have helped a bit but it never feels "firm". I miss my STi brakes.

How many turns are you making on the bleed screw to loosen it?

Agreed. What changes have you made? I wish I could adjust the preload on the master cylinder -- did that on the old E30 and the Subaru, works great.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:42 am

MikeWhitney wrote:

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Compared to other cars I have owned the M3 just has a long travel soft pedal. I have made a few changes that have helped a bit but it never feels "firm". I miss my STi brakes.

How many turns are you making on the bleed screw to loosen it?

Agreed. What changes have you made? I wish I could adjust the preload on the master cylinder -- did that on the old E30 and the Subaru, works great.

New pads, rotors, and those brass guide pin bushings. I might eventually do stainless lines.

I also recently replaced the left front caliper because it was sticking. I got a reman caliper from advance auto for $65. The brakes felt easier to modulate with more feed back after the new caliper. Maybe I should replace the other one.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

MarcusMcRae wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Compared to other cars I have owned the M3 just has a long travel soft pedal. I have made a few changes that have helped a bit but it never feels "firm". I miss my STi brakes.

How many turns are you making on the bleed screw to loosen it?

Agreed. What changes have you made? I wish I could adjust the preload on the master cylinder -- did that on the old E30 and the Subaru, works great.

New pads, rotors, and those brass guide pin bushings. I might eventually do stainless lines.

I also recently replaced the left front caliper because it was sticking. I got a reman caliper from advance auto for $65. The brakes felt easier to modulate with more feed back after the new caliper. Maybe I should replace the other one.

Yeah - I did all that too, plus SS lines and 2 rebuilt calipers. I also sandblasted the caliper and braket where the pads contact, and use brake lube on all the pad contact points. Helped but not enough. Pedal is actually pretty firm, but there is too much initial travel, like there is slop at the top of the MC stroke.

If you make any more progress please keep me informed!

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:22 pm

Mark at HH told me to bleed the brakes while the car is running, something to do with the ABS getting air in it. I'll report back when I know more.

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:29 pm

So while using a pressure bleeder and having someone pump the brakes, we were getting nowhere. That is until we started hearing a noise that sounded like air compressing or releasing and it was coming from near the center of the rear of the car, just under the rear seat area. This was while bleeding the rear.

Anyone know what that noise was? The car is better, but not where I *think* it should be. I'll put the wheels back on and go for a drive later to confirm. I've gone through three quarts of fluid bleeding so far.

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Drop me a line if you need a hand - I owe you some brake bleeding help

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:47 pm

PhilFausz wrote:

So while using a pressure bleeder and having someone pump the brakes, we were getting nowhere. That is until we started hearing a noise that sounded like air compressing or releasing and it was coming from near the center of the rear of the car, just under the rear seat area. This was while bleeding the rear.

Anyone know what that noise was? The car is better, but not where I *think* it should be. I'll put the wheels back on and go for a drive later to confirm. I've gone through three quarts of fluid bleeding so far.

You might want to look for a brake line junction block somewhere around where you hear the noise. My Volvo has one of those and you could be introducing air into the rear lines. If so, it would produce a mushy pedal, but likely not have an enormous effect on the overall braking (if it's only in the rear) - AB

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:49 pm

Anyone know how to identify if the car has ASC + T? Alldata says that it was only on vehicles up to September 1993. This issue is killing me considering the civic is also down and out until I can replace the front wheel bearings and hubs.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:18 pm

PhilFausz wrote:

Anyone know how to identify if the car has ASC + T? Alldata says that it was only on vehicles up to September 1993. This issue is killing me considering the civic is also down and out until I can replace the front wheel bearings and hubs.

It came standard on our cars. I don't see how you would be able to spin as much as you do without turning it off. There should be a little button just above the shifter to disable it.

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:40 am

MarcusMcRae wrote:

PhilFausz wrote:

Anyone know how to identify if the car has ASC + T? Alldata says that it was only on vehicles up to September 1993. This issue is killing me considering the civic is also down and out until I can replace the front wheel bearings and hubs.

It came standard on our cars. I don't see how you would be able to spin as much as you do without turning it off. There should be a little button just above the shifter to disable it.

I do turn that off, but is that "ASC" or "ASC+T"? There are different bleeding instructions for cars with "ASC+T".

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:46 am

MarcusMcRae wrote:

PhilFausz wrote:

Anyone know how to identify if the car has ASC + T? Alldata says that it was only on vehicles up to September 1993. This issue is killing me considering the civic is also down and out until I can replace the front wheel bearings and hubs.

It came standard on our cars. I don't see how you would be able to spin as much as you do without turning it off. There should be a little button just above the shifter to disable it.

I do turn that button off, and I only spun a couple of times this year! But do our cars have "ASC" or "ASC+T"? There is a different brake bleeding procedure for those with "ASC+T".

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:38 am

PhilFausz wrote:

MarcusMcRae wrote:

PhilFausz wrote:

Anyone know how to identify if the car has ASC + T? Alldata says that it was only on vehicles up to September 1993. This issue is killing me considering the civic is also down and out until I can replace the front wheel bearings and hubs.

It came standard on our cars. I don't see how you would be able to spin as much as you do without turning it off. There should be a little button just above the shifter to disable it.

I do turn that button off, and I only spun a couple of times this year! But do our cars have "ASC" or "ASC+T"? There is a different brake bleeding procedure for those with "ASC+T".

ASC+T and no. Maybe they were almost spins.

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:27 pm

Quote:

ASC+T and no. Maybe they were almost spins.

"no" meaning, no there is no difference? According to alldata, there is. ASC+T has an accumulator that you need to bleed. It's located in the drivers side wheel well under the inner fender liner, which is what makes me think my car does not have ASC+T since when I replaced the fender liners, I didn't notice it.

Either way, brakes still suck. I'll get some help this weekend and bleed some more, but I don't have high expectations of a solution. This crap is pissing me off severely.

I replaced the brake fluid in the 4runner which has ABS and didn't run into any issues, what gives here!!!

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E36 Brakes - Soft Pedal

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