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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:07 am 
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Donnie,

Drifting off topic, but this is good conversation. I understand where you are coming from. I think I even agree, but while I'm pushing beyond the limits I'm still looking for that experience that I'll carry forward so that I'm better prepared for the next lap. I have not done much autocross, just HPDEs, and that may have influenced my perspective. Right now I'm still learning a great deal and I prefer to have predictable and confidence inspiring set up. Something I'm 'confident' I can handle once that line has been crossed. If I were half the hot shoe you were, I might have different take. Always glad to see the feedback from you and many others on here.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:37 am 
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Serious autocrossing would be beneficial to you it sounds. Unfortunately, HPDEs do not have the ability to teach what I call car control skills. If you were losing it and trying to recover, going off, spinning, etc, you'd be ejected from an event (rightly so) right away. However, autocrossing you are always at the edge, and you continually develop recovery skills to a very high level. I've seen many "instructors" even at HPDE events (I used to be a CCA instructor years ago in the 80's) who don't hardly have any car control skills as they have spent their entire time coming up through HPDE event ranks. Autocrossing is the answer. :D Spending a few hours a year on a skidpad with good instruction is very beneficial too as you can really learn eye control there with the car out of shape -- probably the number one problem with people who lose it on the track and hammer the Armco. :cry:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:24 am 
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Yeah, if all you are doing is HPDE's, then the confidence inspiring setup is fine. You're not really allowed to time anyway. *shrug* If you are using HPDE's to prepare for something bigger, then you still may want to start experimenting outside your comfort zone. In fact, you need to work on driving the wrong lines a good bit rather than just the right ones. Nobody is going to let you pass on the good line. You're not going to be able to keep the good line when someone is trying to pass you, either. That's where the good car control comes in, too...when you're not where you intended to be but still need to find a way to make it work.

You might think the most likely time for you to have spins and offs in road racing is due to "activity" in the corners (passing and getting passed). In my experience, that hasn't been true. Sure, I've had plenty of contact in corners with cars, but 90% of my spins or offs have been self induced with nobody around me. Basically a result of just trying to push too hard to get faster lap times and running out of talent.

I'm not sure how many people saw me in the Portland MX-5 Cup race on TV, but they had a shot where Laura Olsen punted me and passed me. My car was a push monster that day, but if I even tried to toss it around to loosen it up, it just seemed to go too far. I saw her coming and as she was *about* to hit me, I started to countersteer for it. She hit me, I had the counter going, and while she did get by, I really didn't lose that much momentum. I had overdriven my front tires trying to stay in front and just couldn't get the thing to turn. I realized that after she went by, so I took it easier. She probably overdrove hers and a few laps later I went back by her in the same spot with a light tap. She didn't go around, either.

I probably couldn't have stayed on the track if that had happened a year ago, but you get a lot of experience being shoved around in MX-5 Cup. :) The more off line driving experience you have when that happens, the better. Being able to see the marbles and how bad they are in an instant becomes important, but so does knowing what they are going to feel like. Use even those HDPEs to see...you can explore out there fairly safely if you take your time with it. You probably shouldn't do that until you graduate to a no-instructor class, though. Don't want to be giving anyone any heart attacks. ;)


--Donnie


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:14 pm 
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Location: Greenville, SC
Back on topic...

The issue of GRM where they tested 285/30-18 tires on 8" wheels was "interesting." They couldn't get the V710 to take air (sidewalls were all rumpled in on the 8" rim), so they used a 245/35-18 V710 versus all the other 285s, and the V710 won the test. They mentioned that some of the tires felt "lost" on the small 8" wheel, and I can identify with that a bit. I recently ran 265/35-18 BFG R1s on the 330zhp, and it has 8" front and 8.5" rear wheels. After having major rear rub issues since the BFGs are almost 280mm wide, they swapped me out for some 245/40s.

Jackie and I immediately noticed a nice difference in transitions where now the 245s felt very "tidy" and more nimble (i.e. the communication from them was more direct and precise); however, we both commented that they didn't "feel" as fast as the 265s after our first runs, and we were kind of bummed out :lol: . This was probably our built-in expectation bias coming to play just like people depending on their butt-meter to measure engine mods. We were dead wrong. We both drove the best, PAX-wise, against our club we ever have that day. I PAX'd 3rd and I think Jackie was 15th overall. FWIW.

In autox, I think the answer to the question of how wide is too wide depends on a tremendous number of variables such as tire compound (probably number 1), camber profile, horsepower/weight, ambient temperature, and wheel width versus tire section width (note that different tire designs respond differently to this variable) to name a few off the top of my head.

For the most part, using the widest autox R-comp you can fit in the stock wheel wells seems to work well.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2


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