THSCC Forums

I'm in the process of putting the Energy Suspensions poly bushing kit into my 1994 Civic Si. The kit does not include the rear trailing arm bushings; they are a serperate item that I neglected to order.

But... I was talking to KHoff and he mentioned that some people believe that the trailing arm bushing should NOT be made poly, but should either stay stock rubber or some fancy aftermarket rubber bit.

(The trailing arm does in fact rotate in more than one axis, so I can understand how it _could_ theoretically bind with the stiffer bushing.)

So, can the Brain Trust here offer any opinions or experience?


Thanks,
Eric

I've heard that enough times that I didn't want to take the chance with poly there in the CRX. I wound up using the harder Mugen rubber bushings but there has been talk that the OEM Honda pieces are now the same as the Mugens. I don't know of anybody who has actually verified that first-hand but the is the current "internet rumor."

BTW, I have the trailing arm bushing tool for the EF's and I'm pretty sure it works for the EG's as well. It makes short work of the job and can even be performed with the trailing arm attached to the car. That's the way I did it and both sides took me less than 30 minutes. If you want to borrow it, just let me know.

Jim

I've pretty much heard the same and replaced the RTA bushing on my Integra with a stocker while doing all the rest of them with poly too.

_________________
Stephen Westerfield
2009 Infiniti M35 | 2007 Honda Fit Sport | 2005 Ford Mustang GT |2000 GMC Sierra |1992 Acura Integra LS | Super Westerfield Bros Acura Integra

I would stick with OEM or possibly Mugen hard rubber. If you wish, some folks are running spherical bearings back there as an alternative.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

Ditto...

I researched this awhile back and my understanding is the same as Jim's. Poly has some success stories, but in general there is evidence that it is not the best thing to do. The rumor was that the current OEM replacement is the same design as the old, but with harder rubber. Additionally, the Mugen and the newer OEM may be one in the same.

I would source the Mugen or OEM if it is apparent that they are one in the same now.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Just to follow up, the only trustworthy sources I heard that didn't notice any issues running the polys had (to borrow a word from Karl) "impossibly" stiff rear springs. My guess is that they weren't getting enough rear suspension movement to get into a binding situation.

There was also some question about whether or not the OEM bushings were available from Honda and indeed they are. Supposedly the part numbers are hard to come by but they are floating around out there. If you have trouble finding them, I have them somewhere and can dig them up.

Jim

Yep.

In the early days of my GS-R track car, it developed a well deserved reputation for being a diabolically loose, unpredictable beast to drive. Among other problems the car had along its years-long development, it had poly rear trailing arm bushings.

Once I ended up with 1000lb (!!) springs in the rear, along with the same 22mm rear bar I'd been using for years, paired with a set of race-valved Koni dampers, the car became pretty magical actually. Of course, since I changed so much stuff at once, it's hard to say what fixed it...but I'm with Feinberg on this one. The super stiff rear springs caused the rear wheels to not compress very much - probably only on the inside wheel, when hopping curbs. And half the time that wheel was in the air anyway.

Of course this goes back to one of my mantras - which is "only change one thing at a time." But that's another thread...

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

My understanding is that initially they didn't offer the bushing by itself. That you needed to buy the complete arm. But due to the cars aging and these being a common repair item, they started to offer the bushings. Last time I looked at the online Honda parts places, the parts diagrams don't show the bushing as seperate items.

_________________
Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Yep, that's pretty much it. People are speculating that the parts diagrams won't get updated since the cars are rather old at this point so you really have to know what to ask for. A lot of the average parts counter people will tell you they aren't available since they can't find them on their diagrams. Whether any of that has changed in the last year or so is beyond me.

Jim

I tried the poly RTAB's when I first started going through the suspension on the CRX. Made the rear very stiff, ride poorly, and bind up, so I pulled them and dropped new oem type ones back in. Personally, I would NOT recommend putting the poly RTABS in - if you want spring, use spring.

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Dustin Fredrickson
-- I'm a nobody --

Oh, cool. People that have actual experience and actually know what they are talking about. Highly unusual on the interwebs these days!!

Are there any problems with changing the rest of bushings to poly? Squeaking?

I called Energy Suspensions awhile back about the trailing arm bushings, and got a snort and flat denial that "of course our bushings won't bind your suspension..." Shows what they know I guess...

I tried looking up the OEM bushings, but like ya say, they aren't listed seperately. If anybody has the part number, or a source for them, I'd appreciate the info.

Jim, I'd definitely like to borrow your tool at some point. It looks like the EF and EG cars use the same bushing, so your tool would help me alot.

Thanks for all the help!

Eric

I guess I'm one of a few, but I never had any problems out of mine. Keep in mind, my car spent most of its time, after getting those bushings installed, off the road as a trailer queen.

Every offseason I took apart the suspension (it actually gets pretty easy with the poly bushings) and cleaned and greased all the bushings. I used Exxon CG Moly grease - heavy, thick, nasty black stuff in a tub, in the back of the auto parts store near where they keep the gear oil and such. This stuff seemed fairly impervious to water and the like when the car was a driver.

I don't know what your plans are for the car Eric, or if you're going to be driving it on the road, but FWIW, here's what I'd do if I were building an ITA EG for club racing.

- Delrin bushings at the control arms, offset at the upper arms, inboard location, for more negative camber
- Spherical bearings at the swaybars and the rear trailing arm
- If your rules allow it (IT does not), adjustable toe compensator links up top for the rear suspension (SPC used to make a pretty nice pair that was affordable)

_________________
Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

The Mugen part is available here:

http://www.kingmotorsports.com/category.aspx?cat=37

There's a picture of a stock early Integra mount on the page too. It's all pretty expensive, especially for me - the trailing arm bushings alone would be nearly 20% of what I paid for the whole car!

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

Honda part #52385-S21-003

If for some reason that doesn't work, there is an older part #52385-SR3-000 that might be cross-referenced to the new one.

I've never bought one but they are supposed to be in the $35 range.

Just let me know whenever you want to borrow the tool.

Jim

Here is the what I found:
Southpoint Honda in Durham says that the part number from Jim is not valid. He clicked and muttered through bulletins for awhile, then discovered the Honda short part number is 409829, and that he had them in stock for $60+ a piece.
I sent an e-mail to Majestic, they wrote back the next morning with a price of $25 a piece, so two bushings are on the way to me from them. Total = $67 with shipping.

Jim: sent you a PM about the tool...