Crash bolts

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

hmm, after looking at my car a little bit more, I think I see why there are no crash bolts available for my car, as I can't possibly see what bolts they would replace. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place, I'll stare at it a bit more over lunch

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:32 am

Here's my theory on the Toyota bolts: Don't ever "over" tighten them. The only bolts I ever had slip on the Spyder were either overtightened -or- had too many "cycles" on them. What do I mean by cycles? Installed and removed. I found that anything more than three cycles and they were junk. One cycle equals being removed and installed again AT PROPER TORQUE SPECS. The initial install doesn't count as long as proper torque spec was used. After they've been off and back on three more times, throw the pair away and install new.

Yeah, we went through a lot of crash bolts that way. But it was better than the alternative of having them slip at events and waste perfectly good seat time and tires.

The only time it's okay to over-tighten them is when you're down to your last set, they've slipped, and you have no other choice. That's my theory on the Spyder ones, anyway. I'm sure the MR2 ones were different.

--Donnie

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:34 am

BriceJohnson wrote:

hmm, after looking at my car a little bit more, I think I see why there are no crash bolts available for my car, as I can't possibly see what bolts they would replace. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place, I'll stare at it a bit more over lunch

The base of your strut where it connects with the lower control arm (at the knuckle) should have two bolts going through the knuckle. That's what you replace with crash bolts on most strut suspensions. - AB

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

I've been going on the same couple of sets of crash bolts for several years, "torquing" them by zapping them with the impact gun until the nut stops turning. Been on several different cars, with constantly-changing suspensions. Never slipped - but I don't go for partial settings, just max negative or max positive. I would expect them to slip if they were at a partial setting - just like the first pair did at their first rallyx. I learned from that experience.

I like the Eibach ones. They're well-made, and they don't try to squeeze so much camber in that you have to hammer them to death to get them out, like some other brand I used a long time ago.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:54 am

Kevin Allen wrote:

I've been going on the same couple of sets of crash bolts for several years, "torquing" them by zapping them with the impact gun until the nut stops turning. Been on several different cars, with constantly-changing suspensions. Never slipped - but I don't go for partial settings, just max negative or max positive. I would expect them to slip if they were at a partial setting - just like the first pair did at their first rallyx. I learned from that experience.

I like the Eibach ones. They're well-made, and they don't try to squeeze so much camber in that you have to hammer them to death to get them out, like some other brand I used a long time ago.

First, my crash bolt use was with stock class rules, which means Toyota crash bolts. Second, we were always maxing them, too. The loads you see with r-compound tires to both sides are so great I can not imagine a scenario where it matters whether you are going for partial or full settings...you're going to be ripping on the thing the other way very hard. *shrug* I am pretty sure Jim's were always fully to one max negative camber, too.

I agree that my issue may have very much been not only Toyota specific, but in fact could have been specific to the exact crash bolt we had to use. Just pointing it out in case others end up grappling with the same issues at some point.

--Donnie

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:06 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

First, my crash bolt use was with stock class rules, which means Toyota crash bolts. Second, we were always maxing them, too. The loads you see with r-compound tires to both sides are so great I can not imagine a scenario where it matters whether you are going for partial or full settings...you're going to be ripping on the thing the other way very hard. *shrug* I am pretty sure Jim's were always fully to one max negative camber, too.

I agree that my issue may have very much been not only Toyota specific, but in fact could have been specific to the exact crash bolt we had to use. Just pointing it out in case others end up grappling with the same issues at some point.

--Donnie

x2, although I could never max mine out. The FSM allowed us to use 1, 2 or 3 dot bolts in both the upper and lower strut holes. We put in two 3 dots and hit the alignment rack one time and was able to get 3.7 degrees of negative camber on each side. With a FWD car and an open diff, that was a bit extreme

Thus, using a 3 dot up top and a 1 dot on the bottom, we could set it at 2.3 degrees negative and be done with it.

- AB

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Max for me in front with stock camber bolt in top, added crash bolt in bottom is around -2.5°

I also had to use crash bolts in the rear of the rallyx RS so that I could get back from 0 camber to -1.5 ish because I'm using 04 STi struts on the 00 body.

I will be double-checking them before driving up to VA for the regional event this weekend, now that I've typed all this.

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Aaron Buckley wrote:

BriceJohnson wrote:

hmm, after looking at my car a little bit more, I think I see why there are no crash bolts available for my car, as I can't possibly see what bolts they would replace. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place, I'll stare at it a bit more over lunch

The base of your strut where it connects with the lower control arm (at the knuckle) should have two bolts going through the knuckle. That's what you replace with crash bolts on most strut suspensions. - AB

Yeah, thats what I was looking for, but it appears that the bottom of the strut is attatched differently than that. It looks like the strut slides into a sort of collar and there is only one bolt that tightens the collar around the strut housing (this bolt also goes through a mounting hole on the strut to keep it from spinning around its long axis), if that makes any sense, but basically, there is only one bolt, and it looks like I'd have to make a new collar piece (which seems to be attached to the knuckle) to allow a bolt to offset anything.

The only way I can see an offset bolt working to give me negative camber is where the lower control arm attaches to the frame.

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:31 pm

Well, if you're still looking for cheap, you can always slot your upper mounting holes. Not ideal but it usually works well.

Jim

JamesFeinberg · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:34 pm

BTW, did you ever call a Mazda dealer?

Jim

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

yeah, the mazda dealer parts dept said he didn't list anything for our car, he found stuff for a focus, but not for my car specifically. Considering how little the US focus shares in common with the C170 platform, I'd be hesitant to waste ony money on stuff I don't know will fit. He suggested looking for a universal solution (kinda like marcus was saying). Anyone have a suggestion on how to "professionally" slot my upper mounting holes, so I don't totally fuxor my caster settings? I'm kinda hesitant to slot the mounting holes, I'm a bit worried that it will slip over time, but it sounds like camber/crash bolts slip over time as well, so I suppose the only RIGHT way to do it is the expensive way.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:54 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

I'm kinda hesitant to slot the mounting holes, I'm a bit worried that it will slip over time, but it sounds like camber/crash bolts slip over time as well, so I suppose the only RIGHT way to do it is the expensive way.

I use the Ingalls camber bolts on my struts and never had them slip. Put them in, tighten the ever living sh*t out of them and call it a day. FWIW, I get about -2 degrees from them.

PS. My car sees a bit of extreme duty as well.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:14 pm

Personally, I wouldn't be to anxious to drill holes in a relatively new car. It's a mod that you can't undo.

I'd look for camber plates.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:11 pm

BriceJohnson wrote:

yeah, the mazda dealer parts dept said he didn't list anything for our car, he found stuff for a focus, but not for my car specifically. Considering how little the US focus shares in common with the C170 platform, I'd be hesitant to waste ony money on stuff I don't know will fit. He suggested looking for a universal solution (kinda like marcus was saying). Anyone have a suggestion on how to "professionally" slot my upper mounting holes, so I don't totally fuxor my caster settings? I'm kinda hesitant to slot the mounting holes, I'm a bit worried that it will slip over time, but it sounds like camber/crash bolts slip over time as well, so I suppose the only RIGHT way to do it is the expensive way.

What springs do you have up front? Springs will certainly be cheaper than $400 camber plates and the lowering of the car some more will provide more camber, although you don't want to lower it too much.

When I lowered my Celica, I had to buy camber correction arms for the rear, because I couldn't get the -2.5 camber out of the rear without them. They were billet aluminim and not cheap at $300 a pair. - AB

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

thought about springs, but I think I'll get too much negative camber in the back then, and springs+camber kit for the back=cost of camber plates almost, and I'd kind of prefer to keep my daily driver ride.

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Crash bolts

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