THSCC Forums

I'm looking for some new street tires to daily drive on and serve for HPDEs.

I was looking at the Falken FK452, but i can't find any info on how it holds up to heat/track. Any experience there? it has a 300 wear rating and has excellent reviews for the street. Supposedly much improved in everyway over the 451.

Any other recommendations? Kumho MXs come up a lot for this purpose, but it might wear a little fast. I'd like to keep the wear rating in the upper 200s/300ish.

I'm very pleased with the Toyo T1-R. Fine in the wet. They've held up well with 2 HPDE's at Rockingham. Fairly grippy and progressive break away. Not as cheap as the Kumho MX, but a better multi-duty, longer lasting overall tire in my opinion.

Dan... you'll probably get a lot of suggestions... the short answer is 'any street tire is trackable, but many track tires should not be streetable'

Probably need to ask yourself, what do I want to compromise more: On track performance, or street life?

You can have tons of fun with almost any street tire on track... so long as you keep an eye on them and don't abuse them (this requires some bit of self-control on track obviously). You could also drive with some track-oriented tires on the street without to much fuss... but obviously the wear will be affected, as may the ride quality... and of course wet-weather safety.

As far as suggestions... price will be a determining factor, but BFG G-force KDW would be an all-around good choice in my oppinon. I think any high-performance or ultra-high performance (to use TireRack's terminology) would be good choices... if you're gonna be daily-driving it, I'd go with high-performance all-season tires.

Also... the tracks you plan on driving should be a determining factor as well... if you're only gonna be running VIR (relatively easy on tires) then I'd definitely go with all-seasons. If you'll be at Rockingham, Roebling, or CMP a lot... then I'd stick with a high perf dry performance tire.

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

I'm not a track guy, but have to dissagree with the statement that "any street tire is trackable". I'm sure other examples exist, but in my experience the BFG G-Force KDWS is absolutely not a trackable street tire and I think many "all season" tires fall into this catagory. The KDWS's that came on my GTO after 10K street miles, I tried autocrossing on them . One day in L-burg and another in Sanford, and they were destroyed, corded in many spots and unsafe to drive home had in been raining. When Motorweek tested the GTO they found the same thing, severe chunking of the tires after just a few laps around their test course, causing them to stop testing prematurely.

The KDW would probably be fine, as would most street tires, but I wouldn't be recommend a true all-season snow rated tire, and absoutely not the KDWS.

edit - forgot to post the link.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes.jsp ... PZero+Nero

Not sure if any of these sizes suit you, but they were AMAZING at VIR, lasted through a weekend there, many autoxes, over ten thousand street miles (on my 2.5RS... with me driving it ) and worked great in rain. Even managed to get home from work in snow with them on the car, although it was an interesting experience.

You could also pick up a set of the stock STi tires, Bridgestone RE070, if you can find them. They usually go for around $400 a set or less, depending on mileage. They lasted about the same as the Pirellis, have a stiffer sidewall, but are very noisy, and don't work as well in water.

Couple things...
First, my main point was that there will be compromises either way... but BEING a track guy, I know first hand that all-season tires can and do make perfectly fine (and very fun) track tires. Sure... they won't have the best grip, but for an HPDE you don't NEED the be-all-end-all of grippy tires. Part of the fun is learning how to drive the car fast on street tires (without tearing them up). Learning the differences between the sounds they make (is it a happy squeal, or an angry howl?). Its also very gratifying keeping up with, or even passing similar cars with 'better' tires. You can drive to, on and back home on the same set without worrying about the weather or every little bit of road debris ruining your expensive ultra-high-mega-sticky performance 'street legal' tires.

Secondly... Dan has a '97 M3... a touch lighter and a touch less powerful (but a might more balanced) than your GTO, and (I know I'll get flamed for this one) I'd argue that HPDE, especially in the instructed groups, is (or at least should be) easier on tires than most autocrosses. But that was also one of my points about WHERE he plans on tracking. Track surface and the type of turns plays a huge role in how long a tire will last (in addition to track temps as well). The Yokohama all-seasons's I had on my BMW absolutely LOVED VIR South Course (video... just listen to 'em squeal for joy), but when I took them to Roebling Road in June, I toasted them.

As far as my recommendation, I stand by it. Even though I said KDW, I was actually thinking of the KDWS, which would be the equivilent of the NLA Comp T/A VR4 which I ran on my automatic 1990 300zx at almost 3700 lbs... without any problems (granted, I wasn't that fast in that car, but still). If Dan does indeed want to keep a treadwear rating to 300 or better, then the KDW or G-Force Sport would be the way to go there... I just picked BFG to mention, there are tons of others that are probably better and cheaper. (I'll be running my E30 325 on Khumo V711's at rockingham in Nov, I'll let you know how they do.)

Please keep in mind, I'm talking about HPDE driving (5 to 8 tenths max)... not racing or time trialing.

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Stacy King
Midlife Crisis Participant

I have used the Falken 451 and Sumitomo HTR Z for HPDE. The Sumitomo HTR Z is awesome and the with a price point of $71 per tire, can not be beat.

The current set has Rockingham, Roebling and two VIR-N events on them. They are probably down to 4/32nd's now. I expect to get the PCA VIR event and the THSCC Rockingham event out of them. Not too bad; 14 track days for $71 per tire on a 3500lb F-Body.

I am not too impressed with the 451's. They wore quickly and size selection is limited.

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Jim Pastorius
2008 Silverado VortecMax
1992 Camaro CMC#92
2002 BMW R1150R

2009 3rd Place CMC Mid-Atlantic Championship
2009 CMC Hyperfest Winner

To re-enforce what Stacy is saying, I have run WyndStar Tires and several off name brand all weather tires on track, they are perfectly fine with the right inflation. I can surely tell the difference between el cheapo tires and high performance tires. I would not recommend running in any groups faster groups with out some good tires as you don't want to be a moving road block.

Of course this was on a relativly light car so YMMV.

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David Teague
2015 Lexus IS 250c
1994 Honda Del Sol HS 39
2009 Dodge Journey R/T
http://teaguefamily.us

from what i have seen in print the 452 is not the same as the 451.

call Mark at Hubcap Heaven.

call Mark at Hubcap Heaven

call Mark at Hubcap Heaven

etc. etc. etc.

How about the new Azenis 615?

BTW, forget looking at treadwear rating for any help. Those are almost useless. A 300 treadwear Michelin may last quite a bit longer then a 400 treadwear Bridgestone.

I would not call the tread wear numbers useless. While they are not standardized, you certainly get an idea of tread life especially within a single manufacturer's line. Call Mark Cooper at Hubcap Heaven in Cary. Tell him what you are looking for. He listened to me and guided me to the Toyo T1-R. Did I mention I am very happy with them?

Dan,

Have you looked into Bridgestone RE-01R's?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/tes ... es&place=0

They are suppose to be better than the RE070s which came stock on my car (which, for reference, I like a lot more than the RT-615's that I ran this year).
They may be worth looking into.

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Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

True, treadwear ratings are somewhat useful when comparing within a manufacturer, but that's it. While a 300 tredwear Michelin should last 50% linger than a 200 treadwear Michelin, there's nothing to tell you exactly how many miles that is. The test to determine the rating is not standardized in the industry and it's impossible by looking at one manufacturers rating and compare it to another. They arrived at that number by different methods.

That's why I say it's *almost* useless. It gives you nothing more than a vague guesstimate.

I don't even agree with this anymore. My 420 treadwear Falkens haven't lasted any longer than a set of Azenis would last. Why? They overheat when pushed hard, and once overheated all bets on treadwear ratings are off. We dno't drive our cars on the same test machine used for determining treadwear ratings.

Scott

I ran the Nitto NT555 Extremes on my Lightning and on my Must/Cobra. they have held up well work well in the rain. On my Lightning I did about 4 HPDEs and a few Ax's with them and still got 25,000 miles out of them. I used them as my rain/street tire for the Cobra and they have held up well.
I also like the TOYO Proxies RA 1s