Independent Throttle Bodies

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:44 am

MattMcBride wrote:

Megasquirt, eh? Spent a good bit of time with it myself in the Mazdaspeed Protege. A couple things, since I spent quite a good bit of time tuning cars for a living: MAP over MAF, every time. Unless you're willing to spend 3 or 4 times the amount of time to tune, go MAP. No questions asked. There are just way too fewer things to bother with. Its only downfalls are: It's very sensitive to vacuum leaks, and if you make additional modifications, you need to re-tune.

The megasquirt definetly CAN control Coil-on-plug ignition, that's what the V3.0 board is all about. It first came out with the MS II daughter board, but has been fully implemented on the new V3 board. It's pretty cool. If the cam advance crap is actually just actuated by a solenoid then it'd be very, very easy to set up the shift light for it to trigger that solenoid.

Megasquirt is fantastically easy to tune, as long as you have someone get you started IN PERSON. Lots of stuff is very confusing at first, but once you get that little bit started, you're off to the races. Example: My protege made 280 whp at 16psi, on 93 octane gas. That was a street tune. The stock turbo kit on mazdaspeed proteges make around 135whp at 8psi. I was impressed.

If anyone needs help tuning things, especially megasquirt, gimme a holler. I might not be the best resource for building it (too much of a PITA for me) , but I'll certainly lend a hand with tuning and wiring. Best of luck if you go that route!

-Matt

Boy thats great to hear!

I sent my ECU and Squirt to a guy in New Hampshire and he is making me a drop in harness adapter for a quick and painless install. After that I was planning to take it to Jeff Creech at CAM to tune it. I may have to pick your brain when I get to tuning.

Im also glad to hear yet another sucess story!

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:42 pm

Sounds like I need to find out for sure how the cam change is done. I don't *think* it's as easy as a solenoid, but I'll see. If it is, there wouldn't be anything stopping me from going 'squirt. But I'd definitely be seeking help from Matt. I have no problem building the thing, but the implementation....

--Donnie

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:00 am

http://www.spyderchat.com/enginedetail.htm

Quote:

Spyder's 1ZZ-FE engine VVT-i continuously variable intake-valve timing with VVT-L, a Honda VTEC-like variable valve-lift mechanism on both intake and exhaust valves

Could be a problem....

EDIT!

I punched VVTi controller in Google and this was the first link

http://www.jscspeed.com/index.html?/uni ... camcon.htm

Looks promising

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:36 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

http://www.spyderchat.com/enginedetail.htm

Quote:

Spyder's 1ZZ-FE engine VVT-i continuously variable intake-valve timing with VVT-L, a Honda VTEC-like variable valve-lift mechanism on both intake and exhaust valves

Could be a problem....

EDIT!

I punched VVTi controller in Google and this was the first link

http://www.jscspeed.com/index.html?/uni ... camcon.htm

Looks promising

I would think that Spyder Chat would have done a better job at describing the VVTi mechanism in the Spyder, that description is just plain wrong.

VVTi in the Spyder (and Celica, and Corolla, and Matrix) is limited to the intake cam only, it is NOT dual VVTi.

VVTi is also very unlike VTEC. Vtech changes lift, duration and overlap at the same time, and is not continuous, (generally there are 3? settings??). VVTi is continuous.

Toyota's VVTLi (Celica GTS, and Matrix XRS) is more like the iVTEC found on the newer Hondas. Even so, the Toyota motor is only controlling the valve timing on the intake cam, not both intake and exhaust.

Scott

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:39 am

So the choices seem to be PFC with MAF, or potentially Megasquirt with MAP and a standalone cam controller. Hmm.

Ryan, got a pointer for the guy building your adapter harness? Does he just do Mazda, or can he do Toyota?

--Donnie

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:50 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

So the choices seem to be PFC with MAF, or potentially Megasquirt with MAP and a standalone cam controller. Hmm.

Ryan, got a pointer for the guy building your adapter harness? Does he just do Mazda, or can he do Toyota?

--Donnie

My guy is a Miata guy who just does 1.6 Miata's on the side :cry:

HOWEVER! This guy: www.sparkandfuel.com does a bunch of Toyota specific stuff (4AG).

Linky to 4AG adapter

I have talked to him and he is willing to try anything but you have to send him your ECU.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:27 pm

If I've got to hose up a stock ECU to get the plugs I need I'm fairly certain I can build the adapter myself.

Another update...I got my GSXR 600 throttle bodies a few days ago. Can't beat $75 *shipped* for the complete set including injectors, fuel rail, MAP sensor, TPS, and other stuff.

The one thing that I'm confused by, though, is that these have some sort of second set of butterflies. There's one set close to the injectors that are operated by the throttle linkage, which makes sense. The extra set is above those and appears to be operated by some sort of servo. What the heck are those for? They're easy to take out, but I'm curious.

--Donnie

ChuckNelson · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:26 pm

Is that some kind of constant velocity setup? My Kz1000 had a set of linkage operated butterflies and a set of vacuum operatedCV slides.

Look: http://www3.telus.net/dougsimpson/CVcarb.html

Maybe this is a similar setup.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:56 pm

Well, I didn't read the page you linked in detail because I don't know enough about how carburators work anyway. But you gave me better search terms, which found this:

http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalog ... 0page2.htm

In the middle, it basically describes a system whereby if you go WOT at low RPM, the throttle linkage is going to open the butterflies wide open. However, the controlled butterflies will open more slowly based on vacuum and only let in as much air as the system *needs*. I actually quite like the sound of that. The real question is whether we can control that system with current ECU's or what. At worst it may be worth leaving the hardware for that system in place and simply "stick" those butterflies open for the time being and work on adding them back to the system later. Hmmph.

--Donnie

Anthony Hodges · **Joined:** Mon Aug 01, 2005 6:53 pm **Posts:** 29

You guys might also want to contact Mark at TurboTunes in Greensboro.He has designed fuel management systems and ITB's for everything from street Miatas and Mustangs to NHRA ProMods and The Worlds Fastests N/A Neons(300hp).Hes kind of eccentric but hes tried everything if he thought he could get 1 extra HP or better throttle response.Last time we were there he threw in 3 extra dyno pulls because he thought he could get a few more hp from the spark plug gaps.By the 3rd pull he made 3.5 hp with just changing the gaps.

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