THSCC Forums

Alrighty yall, I just picked up a 2002 WRX sedan the other day, and it obviously needs to handle to not feel small next to my dad's RX-7. I know yall have heard tons of stuff above suspension stuff, and I'd love some feedback on what works/ doesn't work. I was on Nasioc that Tom Hoppe printed up an article on WRX suspension geometry and how to correct it, etc. I'm also wondering about safe heights for lowering(suspension goes positive camber...what's up with that?!?!). Sway bar information and such would also be a great help. Then it'll get some time on the track. Goodness gracious, AWD is cool. You can positively floor it, where in the Mazdaspeed Protege you'd just hit whatever what strait in front of you. Time to re-learn car control. Many thanks guys and gals!
-Matt McBride

FYI... Tom is no longer a club member and has not been on the forum for a year or so.

Good luck with the WRX!

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Matt,

Your suspension choices depend a lot on your budget and whether you care what class it's in (for autocross). There are tons of options out there, each w/pros and cons. I'm on my 4th suspension iteration on my STi, and both Kevin Allen and Brian Herring have done at least as many swaps on their Subys, as well as several other Suby folks who have tried springs, camber/caster plates, etc., so there's plenty of feedback available within the club.

If you want to stay DS class legal, one of the few things you can do to help control the WRX's miserable camber is a big front sway bar. If you don't care about being DS class legal, camber/caster plates (or at least camber bolts) are probably going to yield you the best bang for the buck. Of course, a good set of dampers and stiffer springs will also help, especially if your stock suspension has high mileage. If you care about smoothness on the street (in addition to performance), definitely consider Koni SA dampers, they're light years better than the OEM dampers. Moving upward on the cost and performance scales, there are many coilover suspension options out there for the WRX. If you go that route, you'll want to do lots of research on the forums and talk to as many people as you can find with the set-up(s) you consider before buying.

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Keith Q.
2008 Top Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmX8XuZ_DCo&NR=1

Forget all that stuff Tom Hoppe said. Leave it stock and come rallycross it.

But if you HAVE to ruin a perfectly good rallyx car with track mods ...

You need to at least double the stock spring rate (which is 160 front/ 120 rear), obviously not with the stock struts. For autox, rear springs should be about 10-20% stiffer than fronts. For track, even all around or slightly stiffer in front will be better. My STi was a lot of fun with Konis and ground control springs - 350 lb/in 8" springs in front, 300 lb/in 7" springs in rear.

Ride height shouldn't go lower than 13.5" at any corner, measured from center of wheel to fender arch. Or just look at the control arms and lateral links and make sure you're slightly above parallel to the ground.

Anti-roll bars... up to you, really - you can go with huge bars and softer springs or big bars and stiffer springs. Or you can go extremely stiff with both, if you'd like. I prefer stockish anti-roll bars and stiff springs. Upgrade the rear endlinks if you increase the size of the bar. Leave the front endlinks alone.

Front needs around -3° of camber for tarmac, rear can just stay where it's at with the factory hardware (should be around -1.5 to -2 after lowering). Toe should be zero all around.

Whiteline anti-lift kit is a very nice addition if you don't care about autox.

STi Group N engine and transmission mounts eliminate the wobble when shifting or blipping the throttle for downshifts.

Steering rack bushings will need to be replaced if they haven't already been. Use Whiteline or Super Pro.

And buy all your stuff from Dale Teague at www.boxer4racing.com. He's semi-local (Asheville), and he's a very good source of info, since he's been working on and modifying Subarus for a loooong time.

I've got a set of WRX struts with Koni SA shocks in them that I ran on my STi for a couple events and probably 1500 road miles that I'd sell at a pretty good price...


--Donnie

If it's not going to be a super-serious track car, get Donnie's Konis and Keith's pink springs. Add crash bolts to front for more camber, steering rack bushings, engine mounts, etc. and it will rock.

Let me know if you need any install or setup help. I've done LOTS of playing around with suspensions on Subarus.

Ok, a couple more things to throw in the mix:

1) I've gotta do this kinda progressively, and not spend much money before I sell the Mazdaspeed, since I don't know how much I'll get for it.

2) what would you do first? I was thinking of springs, mindly the ground control coilovers, since I can play with spring rates and ride height as need be. I like the idea of springs, epecially pinks, but I can't corner weight or change height at all, for instance, if I wanted to get c/c plates of something like that and lower it more.

3) Can't rallycross, sorry Kevin. Unless, that is, you let me borrow the impreza. Just can't afford to beat up the underside of that car since I have to drive it every day.

4) I would like to get shocks, but I don't think it's the right time yet(45k miles). However, I'd like to know what shocks work with which setups. I know the ground controls, for instance, only work with certain types of shocks.

5) Are the Pinks progressive?

6) How much springrate would be advisable with stock shocks? Part of the reason why I'm thinking about the Ground Controls is that I could get different shocks at a later date, and change springrates as well.


Thanks!
-Matt

Car damage (or lack thereof) from rallyx is nearly 100% dependent on the driver's approach. On our very car-friendly sites, you can run a completely stock WRX and suffer 0 damage, even no paint scrapes, if you simply drive smart. Don't bash directly into the ruts that the understeering hordes have made and you'll be fine. Really. I did it for a full season in my WRX and it looked perfect when I sold it.

--Kevin H.

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2003 WRX (again!)

Eh, I'll have to consider it. Yet another reason to get Ground Controls: Get taller springs and retain the ability to rallycross if I want to.

From looking at boxer4racing, I found that the pinks are like 400 bucks too, so I really see no reason to get them over GC's. However, the hotchkis and eibach springs are significantly cheaper, and are rather tempting. Do yall know what the springrates are on those? Thanks again.
-Matt

is it a good idea to run stiffer/shorter springs on stock shocks w/ the scoobarus? thats normally a big no no.

So can you afford to beat up the underside with cones at an autox or stuff it into a wall at VIR? Or maybe slide off an on-ramp and roll it down an embankment?

My silver 2.5RS is undefeated (with me at the wheel) at rallyx (no I never get tired of saying that; somebody please come and put a stop to it ), and I have never had any issues with the car that were related to rallyx. And counting all the play time when I just do laps around the field, I've done the equivalent of probably 100 rallyxes with it. It's also a daily driver - sometimes for me, sometimes for Christine. Feel free to take a look at the underside sometime - it's always really dirty, but you won't see anything that's bent or otherwise effed up. I really wish people would start paying attention, because I'm getting tired of typing all that info.

If you don't want to rallyx, you don't have to make excuses, just say so. But take a stock WRX to an autox, then to a rallyx and tell me which one it was made to do. My WRX wagon (also a daily driver and rallyxer when I had it) sucked as an autox car compared to most of the other cars out there, but it felt almost perfect on a rallyx course. (if it had been a 2.5RS it would've felt perfect)

Obviously there are some cars that aren't meant to be rallyxed. But I just get so tired of Subaru owners giving the "I don't want to break my car" excuse. Even had a guy with a stock EVO come out and leave after one run, saying that his car "wasn't made for this stuff." Give me a friggen break.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way...



It's time. It was time when the car rolled off the assembly line. If you can afford springs, you can afford struts, and you should change them first. If the car is going to be a tarmac princess, go with Koni. If it's going to see any dirt roads, rallyx, or other full-travel use, don't get Konis. They don't like lots of suspension travel. Get KYB AGXes instead. They're almost as good as the Konis on tarmac, and they take rallyx just fine.



Stock springrate is advisable with stock struts. I've put the USDM STi pink (not the ones Keith had, which are the JDM STi pink) springs on stock WRX struts, and it becomes underdamped, especially in the rear. The USDM STi pink springs are the same as the black springs that come stock on the USDM STi.

I've run 400 lb/in ground control Eibach springs on Konis on my RS with plenty of damping. For all-purpose tarmac use and daily driving, Konis with 350 lb/in springs all around works really well.

If it's going to be tarmac-only, get a used 24mm front bar (preferably Whiteline) off nasioc and get a set of Konis from Dale Teague. The Hotchkis and Eibach springs are a waste of money for anything other than looks. Just get the struts first, and when you have more money get the ground controls, with the sleeve that works with Konis. If you absolutely have to have a set of springs right now, get a used set of STi stock springs for $100 or less off nasioc, and sell them for $100 when you get the ground control setup. If you get those, you'll also need the rear top mounts from an 04 & up Impreza or Forester.

CN:

1. Rallyx doesn't break cars, people break cars.

2. Get struts first, along with a big FRONT bar and crash bolts for the front, for cheap camber.

3. Get the ground control kit later, when you can afford it.

4. Go play with the car, find out what needs fixing and then come back and ask how to fix it.

Oh, yeah - and if you get springs that are stiffer than around 250 lb/in, you'll need to upgrade the top mounts. STi Group N mounts can handle up to around 400 lb/in springs, from what I've heard (and experienced). Above that, and you'll need metal.

awesome, great info, thanks. Much to consider, much to consider.

In the meantime, I've come across a set of BBS RK's brand new for super cheap...just might have to.... BBS is hard to resist.

I think for the meantime I'm going to do as you suggest and not upgrade the springs until I can do the struts first/ at the same time. When that time comes, has it been shown to be more cost-effective to get a full coilover setup or something like konis and ground controls? I'm always shaky buying shocks/struts from small companies.

Thanks again for all the very good info.
-Matt

Koni/gc is pretty awesome. I got the gc kit for the RS because I already had the Konis, and Hoppe kept telling me how much better the car would handle with that setup. (I was using STi version 5 springs at the time) A lot of coilovers will turn the car into a horrible daily driver, but that setup was fine. Changed spring rate & length, and a few other parts, to install the suspension on the STi - same deal, great handling with good ride quality.

Whole suspension including Koni inserts, spare set of strut bodies to hack up, gc kit, STi Group N front & rear top mounts and camber bolts added to front totalled around $1300.

Which small companies are you looking at?