A few M3 qeustions

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:39 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

I am not going to do anything other than maintenance stuff and some konis.

Marcus - I'm using Koni SA's on my 328is, also ran them on my M3, and love them - you won't be disappointed. You may already know this, but in case you don't, putting Konis on an E36 requires gutting/using the OEM front strut bodies. Not a big deal, but be prepared to donate your OEM struts for the 'swap'.

BTW, I have a spare set of Koni SA rear shocks I pulled off my M3 with <10 kmi I'd sell you for a good price if you're interested.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:48 pm

Keith Quistorff wrote:

MarcusMcRae wrote:

I am not going to do anything other than maintenance stuff and some konis.

Marcus - I'm using Koni SA's on my 328is, also ran them on my M3, and love them - you won't be disappointed. You may already know this, but in case you don't, putting Konis on an E36 requires gutting/using the OEM front strut bodies. Not a big deal, but be prepared to donate your OEM struts for the 'swap'.

BTW, I have a spare set of Koni SA rear shocks I pulled off my M3 with <10 kmi I'd sell you for a good price if you're interested.

Thanks for the offer Keith. I was looking at the GC Konis. Do you have to cut the front struts or is it a simple bolt in procedure?

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:54 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Thanks for the offer Keith. I was looking at the GC Konis. Do you have to cut the front struts or is it a simple bolt in procedure?

GC sells them either way, you can either gut and re-use your OEM front strut bodies w/Koni inserts or pay a few hundred bucks more for GC to put Koni inserts into a pair of custom built strut bodies. I think the latter option is only available for coil-over spring conversion, though. If you want to stay stock class legal and use Konis, I believe you have no option but to gut the OEMs.

To clarify, Koni does not offer a full replacement strut for E36s, only a strut insert. So your choice is whether to gut OEM struts or buy aftermarket custom strut housings to put Koni inserts into. GC's custom housings use their coilover/adjustable spring perch. Unless something has changed very recently, I don't know of anyone offering custom strut housings w/a 'stock' lower spring perch.

If this doesn't work well for you, consider going w/Bilsteins. I have zero experience with them, but I think they offer a full strut replacement for the E36 fronts.

(Oh, BTW, the spare pair of Koni rear shocks I have is from GC, they came with the complete kit I bought directly from GC for my M3. According to GC, the bodies are shorter than stock rear shock bodies, resulting in additional travel, which is beneficial especially on lowered E36s.)

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

More comments on Konis:

I got my SA Koni yellow insterts from Adam at BFI. Price was good. As Keith mentions it's a little involved, but I found it fun to tear apart a shock and see all the bits inside. Took me an afternoon to do the fronts.

I went w/ TC Kline externally single adjustable rears for $$$ extra. The off-the-shelf rears are not externally adjustable as the stock shock shaft is not wide enough to support a concentric adjuster. The TC Kline ones use a wider shaft and require reaming of the stock shock bushings (for stock class) or aftermarket ones for STU/BSP. The TC Kline ones are also slightly shortened (less than 1" to be BS legal!) and have slightly revised damping, although no one could tell me in what way.

If I had to do it all over again for B-Stock, I'd do the same thing. These shocks should be compatible with coilovers as well, which is in my future at some point. For STU or BSP I'll do poly RSMs, RTAB inserts, camber plates, and delrin front bushings at the same time I upgrade to coilovers... Probably over the winter.

Keith Quistorff · **Posted:** Wed Jul 05, 2006 4:36 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

These shocks should be compatible with coilovers as well,

If you're considering re-using Koni's for a coilover set-up down the road, be sure you check w/Koni (or a reputable vendor) regarding the use-able range of spring rates the dampers are compatible with. The Koni rears I have work well up to ~600 lb/in rear springs, and I'd bet Koni's OEM replacement (full OEM length) rear shocks probably won't work with spring rates that high (since stock rear spring rate is less than 200 lb/in). Based on discussions w/GC and BimmerWorld, Koni offers solutions that handle even higher spring rates than the set-up I have, possibly the same rear shocks Mike has.

For the front, I'd suggest checking if the Koni inserts you get to fit in OEM strut housings will be compatible with the rates and housing length of the set-up you plan to run in the future. My Koni front inserts are also short, appropriate for GC's shortened housings, and I'm pretty sure the Koni inserts for OEM strut housings are not. In other words, you might have to buy a different set of Koni inserts for the front if you want/need the additional travel that comes along with shortened front strut housings if/when you move to coilovers.

Bottom line is - before purchasing Koni dampers for an E36, to be sure to talk to a reputable vendor that knows all the options offered and understands your long-term plans for the car - it could end up saving you from buying another set in the future.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Keith, good points. I did talk w/ Lee Grimes at Koni NA about this, and he did believe I'd be fine w/ these shocks with 400-500 f and 600-700 r coilovers, as long as I wasn't lowering too much (which I won't be -- maybe 0.75-1 inch)

We'll see, it is just one opinon, and I didn't research it to death. I figured that when I'm ready to upgrade, I'll do more research, and sell the ones I have if needed.

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

I ran Bilstein Sports for the past few months. They are a little shorter than stock (not sure exactly how much), but are said to be fine w/ stock springs.

Theyre definately a bit firmer than Konis in general compressionwise. This is good of course for stock autox where you can use a stiff shock to help w/ weak stock springs, but its a little harsher for a daily driver. they also are whole strut assemblies.

I'm straying from the beaten path and going w/ a custom Carrera shock/strut coil over setup from Ellis Engineering. They can build you any length shock/strut you need and valve it according. they can do non, single, double adjustable, custom valving, etc. steel/aluminum bodies, rear CO conversions, etc. Theyre in Charlotte so support is close. rebuilds and revalves are only $45. you can add adjustability for $75.

I'm going w/ an nondamping adjustable CO kit of theirs for $900. He wanted to know my desired ride heights so he could lengthen the bodies right, what i do, what level i'm at, etc, etc, etc,etc, for hours. He also said spring exchanges are free until i find the right ones and the first shock revalve is free.

i should get it in this week so i'll report how it turns out. hopefully itll be a nice new option thats cheaper than the rest

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

DanDurusky wrote:

I ran Bilstein Sports for the past few months. They are a little shorter than stock (not sure exactly how much), but are said to be fine w/ stock springs.

Theyre definately a bit firmer than Konis in general compressionwise. This is good of course for stock autox where you can use a stiff shock to help w/ weak stock springs, but its a little harsher for a daily driver. they also are whole strut assemblies.

I'm straying from the beaten path and going w/ a custom Carrera shock/strut coil over setup from Ellis Engineering. They can build you any length shock/strut you need and valve it according. they can do non, single, double adjustable, custom valving, etc. steel/aluminum bodies, rear CO conversions, etc. Theyre in Charlotte so support is close. rebuilds and revalves are only $45. you can add adjustability for $75.

I'm going w/ an nondamping adjustable CO kit of theirs for $900. He wanted to know my desired ride heights so he could lengthen the bodies right, what i do, what level i'm at, etc, etc, etc,etc, for hours. He also said spring exchanges are free until i find the right ones and the first shock revalve is free.

i should get it in this week so i'll report how it turns out. hopefully itll be a nice new option thats cheaper than the rest

Dan - be sure to take lots of pics and share your experiences. With those prices and local support I'm interested in what you find out.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:57 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

I don't think Dan reads much!!! :lol:

Do you think his keyboard has a shift key?

I am not going to do anything other than maintenance stuff and some konis. It is really easy to drive. About a million times easier than the suby. I do not see why the BMW guys are always spinning.

I figured out last night while reading the owners manual why I was having so much trouble getting this thing to slide like I wanted. The ASC has been on. Doh!! When the light is off, it's on. That's brilliant. The car is much more entertaining now. :woo:

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:00 pm

MarcusMcRae wrote:

Jason Mauldin wrote:

I don't think Dan reads much!!! :lol:

Do you think his keyboard has a shift key?

I am not going to do anything other than maintenance stuff and some konis. It is really easy to drive. About a million times easier than the suby. I do not see why the BMW guys are always spinning.

I figured out last night while reading the owners manual why I was having so much trouble getting this thing to slide like I wanted. The ASC has been on. Doh!! When the light is off, it's on. That's brilliant. The car is much more entertaining now. :woo:

I drove Dan's car with that thing on. It really does kill the fun!

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

right, its on by default when you start the car. you gotta push the button to turn off the ASC.

its a sort of primative traction control. well i guess its just traction control in that it only detects rear wheel spin, not yaw or anything. so if its wet out you can hang the rear end out a decent bit before you spin the tires a lot and it realizes it needs to cut throttle. fyi i guess

Matt McGrain · **Posted:** Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:26 pm

DanDurusky wrote:

right, its on by default when you start the car. you gotta push the button to turn off the ASC.

its a sort of primative traction control. well i guess its just traction control in that it only detects rear wheel spin, not yaw or anything. so if its wet out you can hang the rear end out a decent bit before you spin the tires a lot and it realizes it needs to cut throttle. fyi i guess

You guys should seriously consider selling Bimmers! All this talk about zipping around without traction control & soforth makes me want to go join the ranks of the B Stocker's with a Cosmos Black two door.

I guess the days of STi battles have evolved back to M3 battles. :lol:

markodell · **Joined:** Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:19 pm **Posts:** 65

MikeWhitney wrote:

Keith, good points. I did talk w/ Lee Grimes at Koni NA about this, and he did believe I'd be fine w/ these shocks with 400-500 f and 600-700 r coilovers, as long as I wasn't lowering too much (which I won't be -- maybe 0.75-1 inch)

We'll see, it is just one opinon, and I didn't research it to death. I figured that when I'm ready to upgrade, I'll do more research, and sell the ones I have if needed.

Sorry to butt in (I was lurking...) Do I understand this correctly - you already have coil-overs front AND rear on this M3, and are running 600lb+ springs in the rear?

That might be ok for a stock rear spring location, but for a coil over, that doesn't sound quite right to me.

Mark

DanDurusky · **Joined:** Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:31 pm **Posts:** 686

yeh thatd be a non true coil over rear.

a true coil over rear conversion takes a lot of bracing and would bump one up to a pretty modified class

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

markodell wrote:

MikeWhitney wrote:

Keith, good points. I did talk w/ Lee Grimes at Koni NA about this, and he did believe I'd be fine w/ these shocks with 400-500 f and 600-700 r coilovers, as long as I wasn't lowering too much (which I won't be -- maybe 0.75-1 inch)

We'll see, it is just one opinon, and I didn't research it to death. I figured that when I'm ready to upgrade, I'll do more research, and sell the ones I have if needed.

Sorry to butt in (I was lurking...) Do I understand this correctly - you already have coil-overs front AND rear on this M3, and are running 600lb+ springs in the rear?

That might be ok for a stock rear spring location, but for a coil over, that doesn't sound quite right to me.

Mark

Hey Mark -

Nah, I use the term "coilover" loosely to mean "adjustable spring perches". I'm still on stock suspension, but when I make the jump I'm planning to go with 400F, 600R +/- 50lb in the factory locations.

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A few M3 qeustions

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