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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:19 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Franklinton NC
should have tried a 20r block machined to fit 22 r low prfile pistons and a 22r crank. (more compression) the draw back is it has to be just right to keep the pistons from slapping the valves. but sounds like it's gonna be reliable and well for such a heavy engine nice. (I may be able to find some more 20R/22R parts for you from some freinds that circle track toyotas. I think most of the stuff is for sale including a 3TC block complete less push rods.

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beware of EV powered Ford EXP's they are quiet and come for you when you least expect it... hide behind an aluminum light pole...... ya that will help


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:00 am 
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Got Powah?
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Hey Scott - can you share with us the places you used for machine work and our thoughts about their prices and service?

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V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:30 am 
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proud papa!!1!
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Location: Durham
Dale Schendel wrote:
should have tried a 20r block machined to fit 22 r low prfile pistons and a 22r crank. (more compression) the draw back is it has to be just right to keep the pistons from slapping the valves.


Why use a 20R block at all? You can weaken it by boring it to 92mm, or you can just use a 22R block (like I did) and weaken it less by boring to 94mm. I'm using Forged 94mm high compression pistons in a 22R block with a 20R head. 20R and 22R cranks are identical.

The only thing I'd change if I did it again would be the age of the block. I compromised with a "tall deck" (1981-84) motor, I got a deal on a few of the parts. I should have held out for a newer "short deck" (1985-95) That would have meant different pistons (still high compression, still 94mm), but they would have been flat top instead of domes (more efficient combustion that way), and more importantly, they would have been about 75 grams lighter per piston. That makes them rev a lot easier. The added bonus is a lighter engine, I'm not sure how much, but I'd guess 30 lbs.

I'd still use the 20R head, but it would have been milled about 1cm to work with the late type timing chain (2 links shorter), I actually did buy a 20R head already to go, but sold it when I started the tall deck motor.

The only problem with the short deck motor would have been the compression, about 12 to 13:1. My motor will run on pump gas... (I'm guessing that mine is about 10.5:1).

The other motor is also a single row chain (unless you buy a $500 conversion kit), and mine is a double roller.

As for the parts from circle track folks... I'm always looking for nice spares. I actually bought most of my stuff from the circle track guys, and sold a lot of my unwanted spares to them (stock intakes, holley carb adapters, etc).

Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:30 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:19 pm
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Location: Franklinton NC
I'll see if they still have the stuff. and get back with you. You can probably get everything for a song,

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:17 am 
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proud papa!!1!
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Location: Durham
Fabbed up an adapter last night to realign the water neck. Worked out pretty well for the available tools.

I only ruined my $15 Harbor Freight chop saw and my Harbor Freight 3" air cutter.

The only thing that didn't break was the H-F drill press with DeWalt hole cutting bit, and the Sears bench grinder...

Regardless, it all went together pretty well. If it doesn't leak, it'll be a miracle....

http://home.earthlink.net/~celica73-2/hybrid/Page1.html

Relevant pictures are at the bottom of the page.

Scott


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:07 am 
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So I had this dream last night...
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:00 am
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Location: Oh, just Cary. Innocent little Cary.
That plate came out quite nicely! I also like the notches in the original for the allen bolt heads!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:26 am 
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You're just jealous

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Location: Raleigh, NC
scottjohnson wrote:
Regardless, it all went together pretty well. If it doesn't leak, it'll be a miracle....


Scott,

Very nice job!!! If it does leak, try the trick of "surface grinding" the flat plate by laying sandpaper flat on the floor or workbench and moving the plate around on the sandpaper. If you leave the paint on you should be able to easily see areas which are "low".

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:25 pm 
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proud papa!!1!
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Location: Durham
The engine is alive.

Cliff notes..

Welded up exhaust (connected header to the rest of the system).

Rewired half the car.

Filled engine with water.

Water leaked out (not from my adapter). Fixed leak.

Added oil.

Started car, first crank. Car ran 20 minutes to break in the cam.

Temp good (160-170 ish full warm, 160 deg thermostat), oil pressure good, 75 psi cold, 40 psi hot@2000 rpm.

Drained oil, looked good.
Drained water, looked good.

Just have to button a few things up, should be on the road by Wednesday or so.

If it passes a compression test tonight, then I guess the engine builder did his job at least part right.

Scott


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:51 pm 
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Tadpole Lover

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Looking forward to seeing it in action.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:13 pm 
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proud papa!!1!
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Location: Durham
Compression test was fine, 140 psi in all cylinders (that's not bad for 20 minutes on the rings and a stupid long duration/overlap cam).

I was suprised to see that I had the timing off by a tooth, I was running about 40 degrees of static advance when I first started the car, it actually ran just fine that way. With no load you can really advance the crap out of the timing on these engines! At 2000 rpm cam break in I was probably closer to 50 or 60 degrees of advance!

Got the idle dialed in a bit tonight, and the carbs synchronized. Once it stops raining, it should be ready for a test drive and some carb jetting under load.

Scott


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 10:38 pm 
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You're just jealous

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Location: Raleigh, NC
Scott,

Great job. Even though I've only built a few engines over the years, it is very satisfying to fire them up and have them run well . . . and for a long time.

I recommend that you also do a leakdown test. It is a MUCH better indicator of the health of an engine and having "new" numbers and then "after break-in" numbers may be very useful down the road when you are trying to determine how healthy the engine still is. My FF engine has 3 to 4 percent leakage, by the way.

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FS 50 2018 Mustang GT


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:07 pm 
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proud papa!!1!
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Location: Durham
Drove the car for the first time last night, it was good. Got a plate and drove it to work. It's good.

Power comes on smoothly, though a bit high in the rev range. At my current 6500 rpm rev limit, I don't think I've hit peak power.

Easily solved, I just upped the limit to 7000. I might advance the cam a little bit to get more low end.

Oil pressure is a touch over 80 psi at speed (the old engine never went north of 60)

Still struggling with the idle, but if it's never right, who cares, it runs right at wide open throttle!

Scott


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:27 pm 
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You're just jealous

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:14 pm
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Location: Raleigh, NC
Scott,

FYI what is the displacement and what is the rough estimate "expected" crank HP for a setup like yours?

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FS 50 2018 Mustang GT


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:42 pm 
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proud papa!!1!
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:44 pm
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Location: Durham
DickRasmussen wrote:
Scott,

FYI what is the displacement and what is the rough estimate "expected" crank HP for a setup like yours?


about 2.5 liters

about 160 hp (+ or - 30, I don't know for sure).

Scott


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