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 Post subject: Best bang for the buck Air Compressor
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:30 pm 
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I am looking for an air compressor and I figure that there are people out there like me who are continually shopping for various things. Anyone know the scoop on a decent air compressor?

I am looking for...

* Vertical/Upright (small footprint). Wheels would be nice, but not required.
* 20-30 gallon tank
* Oil lub
* Electric. Probably 110v as I may take it someplace remote that does not have easy access to 220v. But I probably could be talked into a 220v unit if the price was right.
* As powerful as you can get via 110V (2+ HP continuous and 5 HP peak?) (someone convince me to do 220V :) )

I plan to use this for infrequent shop use (impact wrench, etc.), minor wood working (air gun) and maybe at the most taxing would be a small bead blast cabinet (probably stretching the capability of this type of compressor if 110v)

Cost is a factor, so that I why I am looking for "bang for the buck". I am willing to entertain some type of cheapy from HF (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47065 $169!!) but only if it gets rave reviews. ;) I probably can't afford a higher end Ingersol Rand or something like that. I am thinking $400 +/- is my budget. This one at Northern jumped out at me...

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=200311705&R=200311705

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:00 pm 
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Well first there are two main types, direst drive and belt driven.

The direct drive are VERY loud, but much cheaper to produce. The Belt drive require lubracation and oil changes, but are much queiter, more durable, and often cost more.

WHile I like HF, I would not buy one of their compressors. Really this should be a one time purchase and you will thank yourslef later by getting a good one up front.

As for ratings, HP is nice, but CFM @ PSI is the most important factor. That will tell you what tools it can run and give you an idea of how long between cycles.

You will find if you look hard that there are really only like 2-3 manufactures of compressors, they just get painted and badged differently. For quality, cost, and not to mention service and warranty you would be hard pressed to beat what HD and Lowe's offer.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:13 am 
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Adam Ligon wrote:
You will find if you look hard that there are really only like 2-3 manufactures of compressors, they just get painted and badged differently. For quality, cost, and not to mention service and warranty you would be hard pressed to beat what HD and Lowe's offer.


HD and Lowes generally sell Campbell Hausfeld under their own brand:
http://www.chpower.com/index.asp

(HD = Husky, Lowes I think sells them as Campbells)

I have a VT6195 and it puts out about enough CFM's that it can do just about anything that you want to do with an air tool. It isn't portable (drilled into concrete to mount it) but at the $400 I paid for it with a set of air tools and hose, it was a steal (if they are still priced at that much) compared to the capabilities of other larger portable compressors - only a few dollars more than something more portable and less capable. Unless you move a lot (and I take it you aren't a contractor needing mobility), I'm not sure what the portability buys you (have tow vehicle and generator to take to events?). It is going to take up garage space no matter what. Need to get to a car outside the garage? Use a longer air hose. ;)

For as little as you will use it, the oil change thing for a belt-driven isn't much of an issue - I _THINK_ it is every 25 hours of use, but it takes all of 1 minute to do an oil change. I'm due for a change after the licking it took last weekend pulling vacuum down on an A/C system.

As for HP ratings - Campbell got sued over misprinting HP (I got another impact wrench out of the settlement) - peak versus continuous, so you might as well just ignore it when comparing compressors. Compare them using the CFM delivered @ 90psi (what you typically run high load air tools at). Less than 5 is useless IMHO and you are going to have trouble with extended use of impact wrenches. 10 or higher is ideal and lets you run 99% of air tools (I forget what it is that I can't run, whatever it is, must not be that important if I can't remember it, and I can probably coax it to run it by just letting the motor continuously fill the air tank).

As loud as it is, with the garage door shut, you can't hear it outside the house when it is running nor is it very disturbing inside. It's nice to be able to whizz off a fastener at 2am if you have to. :) I have left it on a few times and had it cycle in the middle of the night - you can hear it, but it isn't so obnoxious that if you have heavy sleepers in your house that you couldn't use it in the wee hours of the night. ;)

The only bugaboo is wiring up 230V to it and it wasn't as hard of a job as was made out to be - luckily, my panel is in the garage and there was room for a subpanel right next to it. Come to think of it, I just added a breaker in the main panel to start out with and added the subpanel later.

YMMV. IIRC, you drive a Honda and probably don't wrench as much as I do, so what I have may be overkill, but as Tim the "Tool-man" Taylor says <grunting> "More power!". :)

I drive these cantankerous Mazdas and they always seem to need attention so the more tools, the merrier they are - I seem to be pulling a transmission or engine on a regular basis, so it has more than paid for itself alone in saved time and reduced busted knuckles running the heavy duty impact wrench.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:53 am 
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Thanks for the info. I do understand the HP vs. CFM issue. I probably should have just left out any mention of HP. I only mentioned it because from what I can tell pretty much any 110v electric is going to run at about 15 amps max and I think that is in the 1-2 continuous HP range. And at that range of continuous HP, a pump seems to only deliver about 5-6 CFM at 90 PSI.

That seems to be a semi-sweet spot for some tools. Going to 220v allows for a higher HP pump, and that is when you start to get a much higher CFM at 90 PSI. Problem is that most 220v units are over my current budget by a few hundred bucks. I probably should have been asking for the most efficient 110V pump that runs at 15 amps (i.e. who can give me the highest CFM from 110V).

But the more I look, the more it seems that most 110v at at about 5.7 +/- CFM at 90 PSI. I may have to browse around to see what tools that would preclude. I am mostly worried about occasional blast cabinet use (very limited) and how frequently it would cause the compressor to cycle.

Also, I expect to be building a fence in the back yard this year and as soon as I get a 220v unit and not wheels, then part of my justification for doing this with the CFO is gone. :( The 110v with wheels can be carted out of the garage.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:59 am 
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Craftsman has(or had?) an upright twin cylinder model that will do anything you want. It's 110V and about a 30 gallon tank. It's probably in the $400 range. I have it's predecessor in the horizontal, 220V configuration. I have ran a DA sander all day long with it. Not once did I ever have to stop and wait for it to catch the pressure up. I was pissed when they came out with the vertical, 110V model. If I were to be looking for a compressor now, that's the first place I'd check.

Good luck,

KB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:21 pm 
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Kevin Butler wrote:
Craftsman has(or had?) an upright twin cylinder model that will do anything you want. It's 110V and about a 30 gallon tank. It's probably in the $400 range. I have it's predecessor in the horizontal, 220V configuration. I have ran a DA sander all day long with it. Not once did I ever have to stop and wait for it to catch the pressure up. I was pissed when they came out with the vertical, 110V model. If I were to be looking for a compressor now, that's the first place I'd check.

Good luck,

KB


that is the one I have...it rocks. It will easily do everything you want and it is 110V. I can get the model number tonight if you want.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:30 pm 
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Ashraf Farrag wrote:
[ Unless you move a lot (and I take it you aren't a contractor needing mobility), I'm not sure what the portability buys you (have tow vehicle and generator to take to events?). It is going to take up garage space no matter what. Need to get to a car outside the garage? Use a longer air hose. ;)

.


The problem with it not being portable is that if you use it for anything other than car/garage stuff, like nailing molding on the other side of the house, or anything outside the garage, you will end up buying a lot of air hose to run the distance. If all you are using it for is the garage, it won't matter. I have an old 20gal unit I bought from my neighbor horiz. on wheels. I actually have never used it on the car :oops: , I don't have air tools, but use it for nail guns.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:59 pm 
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^ Right, but really a 50ft air hose is only $15. And even with portable units you have have to serious extension cords to run them properly. And a 50 ft 10 or 12ga cord costs alot more than a 50ft length of air hose :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:59 pm 
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RobLupella wrote:
The problem with it not being portable is that if you use it for anything other than car/garage stuff, like nailing molding on the other side of the house, or anything outside the garage, you will end up buying a lot of air hose to run the distance. If all you are using it for is the garage, it won't matter. I have an old 20gal unit I bought from my neighbor horiz. on wheels. I actually have never used it on the car :oops: , I don't have air tools, but use it for nail guns.


I can't comment about framing nailers, but for finish nailers the standard 5-7 gallon air tank will work fine for quite a bit of nailing, no need fo rlong calbes if you can take the air with you.

Scott


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:13 pm 
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scottjohnson wrote:
I can't comment about framing nailers, but for finish nailers the standard 5-7 gallon air tank will work fine for quite a bit of nailing, no need fo rlong calbes if you can take the air with you.


The nailer or other similar devices is a good point. I have a new home, so I haven't had a need for such things, thus I did not think of that issue. However, that shortcoming could be easily fixed. 5-7 gal air tanks are what, $20-30 (guessing) or so and you could also transport it to an event in a car easier than an air tank/compressor/wheels? :)

As I said, the one I mentioned may be overkill for Richard (did I mention it has a SIXTY gallon tank <grunt, grunt>) but it sure as heck gets the job done and then some.

Another thing worth mentioning is that if you go to the store to buy one - most of them have charts on them which show you what tools they can/may with extra compressor cycles/can't operate. They may have similar charts on the web somewhere...

--Ashraf


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:04 pm 
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Adam Ligon wrote:
^ Right, but really a 50ft air hose is only $15. And even with portable units you have have to serious extension cords to run them properly. And a 50 ft 10 or 12ga cord costs alot more than a 50ft length of air hose :wink:


Oh yeah, I realized that when I priced 10-12ga wire for an extension cord, or......15-$20 for longer hose. The hose won. Still if you have a need to do stuff out of the garage it is a pain in the ass to haul hose around throughout the house :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:56 pm 
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It may cost less, but more hose reduces the air supply dramatically.
Buy the heavy extension cord, you'll find other uses for it as well.
Beware of tool ratings especially cheaper tools. The ratings given are often the very minimum needed just to get the tool to operate without any load on it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:20 am 
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FYI...

I have pretty much settled on a 220V/7HP/60Gallon vertical tank. Mostly due to the higher CFM. Lowes, HomeDepot and Sears are all pretty close to each other on price (Sears a bit higher). It looks like I could buy something like an Ingersoll Rand for much more, but I don't need a 100% duty cycle pump. I could also get something with an intercooler, but that adds about another $100 or so to the price. I suspect that it really would only help if you run it at a high duty cycle (which I don't think I will do).

Thanks everyone for your help!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:28 am 
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Richard Casto wrote:
I could also get something with an intercooler, but that adds about another $100 or so to the price. I suspect that it really would only help if you run it at a high duty cycle (which I don't think I will do).


Do tell about that intercooler. I don't remember seeing that as an option when I was buying. Maybe more expensive models had it...links/information?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:47 am 
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Ashraf Farrag wrote:
Richard Casto wrote:
I could also get something with an intercooler, but that adds about another $100 or so to the price. I suspect that it really would only help if you run it at a high duty cycle (which I don't think I will do).


Do tell about that intercooler. I don't remember seeing that as an option when I was buying. Maybe more expensive models had it...links/information?


They use the term "aftercooler". Assuming I understand this correctly I think an aftercooler and intercooler (as we know it in cars) is the same thing. Anyhow all it looks to be (on the models at Lowes) is a cast piece with fins that is used in place of part of the the copper tube that runs from the pump to the tank.

This is the $427 model.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... 540-K7060V

This is the $547 model.

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... 0-K7060HFV

The info on the web site is nearly non-existant. :roll: However, you can zoom the images on the site and see the aftercooler on the upper left.

From looking at them in person, the best I can tell the more expensive one adds the inter/aftercooler and a has a metal shroud around the belt between the motor and the pump instead of a plastic one (plastic one looks pretty sturdy). It looks like the aftercooler (and shorter copper pipe) would bolt right up to the cheaper model. The more expensive model also is rated at a slightly higher CFM. I don't know how they do the CFM measurements and since it looked like the same pump (I didn't compare the part numbers on the pumps), I would assume they are somehow getting the higher CFM via the cooler air.

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