THSCC Forums

Hello all,

I just got a great deal on some new wheels with tires for autox and HPDE, but i might have a little problem. the tires on these wheels are Kumho Ecsta V700s which are DOT approved street legal Rcomps w/ a UTQG of 50AA A. This 50 is the treadwear right? which sadly is less than 140 so i can't be in in STX anymore? Or is the >140 rule only for Street Tire and not Street Touring classes?

I'm confused because section 8.3 of the classing rules on this website have a note that says, "Note: This does not apply to Street Touring classes." but then in the STX section it repeats the >140 rule..

please clarify. thanks

The V700's are not legal for the Street Touring classes as well as Tarheel's "street tire" class.

The "street tire" class is a Tarheel-specific class (although a lot of other clubs have one as well) and I'm guessing Tarheel copied the >140 tread wear rule from SCCA's Touring classes since they run "street tires" as well.

Jim

V700's are R compound tires, no ST* classes for you at all.

If your car has STX mods, your appropriate Street Prepared class will be your best bet.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

ok, thanks guys. and on top of all this i only have 2 events under my belt so i run NOV.

i assume an ESP car can't be NOV eh? my n00b days are over, i better learn how to drive

Novices can drive any car they want. Whether you run in NOV, open, X or whatever is independent of the car prep level. You'll just have to deal with a harder ESP pax in NOV class.

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www.ncvw.org
1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
1986 MB 190E 2.3L 16v - STX (SOLD)
1997 BMW M3 3.2L - BS for now

NOV class rules have to do with your status (3 events or less). Not the type of car you drive. So you can register in NOV and your time is PAXed against whatever class the car goes in.

Graham

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http://www.greywinds.com

Not a bad guess, but THSCC's Street Tire class pre-dates the SCCA's Street Touring classes. Hum... maybe SCCA copied THSCC?

Diane

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Diane (Hall) Bundas
1992 Spec Miata #48 - 1997 Chevy Tahoe - 2007 Honda Civic Coupe

Good point. However, how did Tarheel determine what was a "street tire" before? Was it by tread wear ratings or was it just non-"R" tires? I realize that is essentially the same thing but what was the language used in the rules?

Jim

i see, i wondered because and friend and I ran into a trouble registering as STX and NOV for some reason or another. eventually they let it happen, but i assumed the problem would be worse so w/ an ESP car.

but that is good to know. thanks all

It was by treadwear rating. 140 and above. Now that I think of it, Diane is right, the SCCA copied Tarheel

Honestly, I think the rule came about that way for at the time, the softest street based tire was either the RE71's or AVS Intermediate, and I know the RE71 treadwear rating was 140, so that was where Tarheel set it. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S

the old rules were you couldn't run an ST* car in NOV class b/c the pax was significantly lower. The idea was based a lot on the fact that even a fully prepped car in ST* wasn't running r-comps and in other classes, the assumption is that they are - so ST* got a sweet pax. It was thought that most novices wouldn't show up on r-compounds and that the extra low ST* pax would give an undue advantage in NOV class.

...if that makes any sense.

_________________
www.ncvw.org
1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
1986 MB 190E 2.3L 16v - STX (SOLD)
1997 BMW M3 3.2L - BS for now

I am pretty sure that the online pre-registration still works this way. My wife drives my STS car in NOV, but we can't register her in NOV with STS as the base class. I have to bump her to DSP. Which obviously puts her in a tougher PAX for no other reason than she just happens to be in an ST* car. For me it seems a bit unfair to allow someone to run R tires (against those that could run R Tires, but don't) and then prevent ST* cars from running an ST* PAX.

However trying to fix this is problematic. IMHO there is two ways to fix it...

1. Ban R-tires from NOV and create a special PAX for ST* cars that would allow it to run against other cars on street tires. This would fix not just the NOV issue, but would also allow ST* cars in TIR class (open can of worms here).

2. Let anyone run in NOV regardless of prep level. It is just a 100% indexed class for any novice.

IMHO #1 is the "correct" way, but harder to implement (create special PAX, T&S issues, etc.) and prevents a NOV from driving a car with R Tires (such as a NOV co-driver in a prepared car of a regular driver). #2 is easy, but could potentially screw NOV drivers who can run R tires but dont (which is the majority of the NOV drivers) if decent NOV driver is on R tires or an ST* car on good ST tires.

But in the grand scheme of things, this is a minor problem as who really is complaining about this?

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

yeh, i would kind of feel like an ass being in NOV w/ r comps. i agree it doesnt make sense. luckily i'm no good and pose little threat

I have an old set of wheels w/ bald all seasons on them that i will run in Greenville this weekend as an STX NOV. After that i am selling the wheels and will be using the new wheels w/ Rcomps in plain ol ESP.

be on the look out for a Red VW R32 that appears to be on ice this weekend

oh and i don't necessarily think that i need or am ready for rcomp tires.. i just sort of fell into them cuz they came w/ the wheels i bought used and its what i'm now stuck w/. i think ill go back to street tires when these are dead so i can more effectively learn

thanks all

Several points to make, so listen up!!!!

1. You can't register online as a NOV with any ST class, BUT we determined at the last event that you can if you register at the event. There were several that registered AT the event as NOV (ST*). This caused a problem as those who pre registered had to be reclassed to make things fair. It was a pain trying to track down those who were affected while we were trying to finish up the results for trophys. We really need the upper management to make a ruling on this.

2. R-comps in NOV. This is nothing new. 1st place NOV at L'burg was running on R's and we have had rookies running in the Peterson/Barnes (not trying to single you guys out, but that was the first one that I remembered.) Spyder on Hoosiers before. It may give them an advantage, but you are a Novice and should be there to have fun, not necessarily to take home wood.

3. From what I have been told by the officers in the club, NOV is now a year long class. Meaning you can run NOV all year if you want to. The great thing about this is we can have a true Rookie of the Year award at the banquet.

I'm done.

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

even though its legal, do you all think its "ethical" to run in NOV w/ r comps, etc. it seems like NOV should be for n00bs to have fun and learn, not to be ultra competative, going for trophies, etc.

i dunno i kinda feel personally that if your gonna get aggressive w/ parts/tires and want to compete, then you should do so w/ others who are at the same level competivenesswise. its like you should worry about modding your car before you can drive (altho im a bit guity of this), so if your modding your car.. then you must be able to drive and if you can drive then you shouldnt be in NOV. or something

so personally, i think ill get out of NOV after greenville and do the best i can. i'm sure itll take me a season or two to get competive, but i kinda think thats ok. dunno