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I had to pull the engine out of my track beater last night. After the overheat (burst heater hose) at Road Atlanta, which was the second time that I've overheated it, I could get a .025" feeler under the straight edge on both the head and the block, so it's done. I tried putting a head gasket on it, but my oil quickly turned milky as my coolant level dropped, so I'm thinking that no amount or over-torqued head studs and copper spray is going to put Humpty back together again.

Engine is a Honda/Acura B-series.

Ring seal is still great and bores/skirts look good (it's only got a few thousand miles on it), but at some point in this engine's life (back in my drag racing days, boost!) it was decked several too many times, so piston-to-deck height is around -.027 (yes, that's a negative number). I compensated for this by using a .060 head gasket, which was probably a bit much, but I wanted to be really sure and it's my track beater, so I don't care so much about power as long as it runs.

It's also a Dart block, so I'm reluctant to part with it, as it is a really good block and I paid a lot for it.

So my first question is, can I just keep track of which piston went in which hole, have the head and block resurfaced, and slap it all back together with a new head gasket and a set of main/rod bearings and have a reasonable hope of still having good ring seal? Or should I get it bored/honed and put a new set of pistons/rings in it?

And my second question is, should I be worried about that 4-layer .060" head gasket? I've had several people tell me that they are failure=prone, but those have all been people who run 15:1 compression or 25+ PSI of boost. This is an 8.4:1 engine that I'm running NA on stock cams.

If that makes sense to anyone, then I'd enjoy hearing from you.

Thanks

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

I am not qualified to comment, but that will not stop me.

If this wasn’t a Dart, block, what would you do?

Even as a Dart block, does it still have extra value given the deck situation? Implication here is the deck height issue has maybe negated the natural value of that block.

Are you emotionally attached to this block?

How much material will be lost if you resurface the block? The head may have issues, but maybe you may not need to mess with the block again? Maybe a new (used) head and toss on another .060 gasket.

Fix your cooling issue!

Good luck on your rebuild!

Richard

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Good input, I'm still thinking this through myself.

The current advantages of the Dart block are a closed deck and a good set of forged rods (that can only be used with the Dart block because it's a "tall deck" block) and it's free. I could part with it, but I'll get nothing for it due to the deck situation. I'd only cry for a couple of days, but with time and the love of a good woman, my heart would eventually heal.

I'm probably looking at .003-.005 off of each piece to get them flat. If I'm targeting a minimum piston-to-deck height of .02 to be safe, then my head gasket would have to be .052 or greater, so a Cometic .060 should be fine. I'm pretty sure (in an airport now) the head is not down to the "you've gone too far" indicator, and even if it gets there, I've got a new backup casting that I can transfer my head HW to if I need to, although I'd prefer not to because then I'd lose the porting of the current head.

I had also thought about buying one of those $300-$400 JDM CRV B20 engines, putting my VTEC head on it, a block guard to brace the sleeves, a set of ARP rod bolts to stop the big ends from flying apart, and just running that. The cost and power would similar (assuming the B20 deck was flat), but it would be quite a bit flimsier than what I have. It'll only be used for HPDE duty at the worst, so I don't really need a race-grade build. I would like to drive it to/from events, and maybe Targa or Rally it, so it needs to be reliable and up for a road trip.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

*stares blankly at the screen* What you have blows up every time you drive it!

I'm a bit surprised the backup Duff D16 -- which technically belongs to me -- hasn't wandered off the RV and found its way into Lumpy. Sure it's half the power, but I'm reasonably sure it'd last more than one track day.

As for reloading the pistons, the instant you pull them, the rings are going to shift. They'll never land in the same groves during reassembly.

Nope, I'm going to make this work. I can put a GSR crank in it and drop the pistons to right where Wiseco wants them, or try it again with them out of the holes. If the F20C in an S2000 works fine with negative piston-to-deck height, then this should.

I'm thinking that if I go to this much trouble, then I should probably just use some new high compression pistons, do a .5mm bore/hone, and make some power. Then I could use my good cams as well.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."

Weld er up and grind er down.

Metalizing aluminum is a difficult (read: expensive) process. I've watched the process on cast iron blocks, and various shafts, but AL has to be done in an O2 free environment. (eg. vacuum chamber.) I was also thinking of a shim, but machining something 0.025" thin is "impossible" -- it'd be like machining tin foil. (head gaskets are stamped) Shorter rods would also add clearance, but I'm not versed on the options there.

(I can get pallets of B20's for what he's spent on that car.)

Yep, it'll need to be decked and the head will need to be resurfaced. It was a long shot to put a head gasket on it with more than .0015" and it had .0025", but I was engaging in wishful thinking. I also need to check the cam journals on the head to make sure it's not too warped. I have a backup new head casting that I can transfer all my HW to in that case.

I got ahold of a friend of mine that's built a lot of engines, and he thinks the piston-deck situation will work if everything is straight, so I'll order a new set of high compression pistons and try it again.

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"Every ship is a minesweeper, once."