Hawk's marketing gimmick?

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2017 10:52 am

So pad shopping and realizing I don't like replacing rotors every 2 track weekends I was looking at some lower compounds offered by Hawk. Eye balling the DTC-30s and looking at the compound chart

Notice it says DTC-30/Street Race

Now let's compare the specs between the W (DTC-30) and the R (Street/Race) comound

http://www.hawkperformance.com/race-com ... pplication
http://www.hawkperformance.com/street-p ... pplication

They're exactly the same. So why are the DTC pads $25ish more a set than the R compound pads that have the exact same specs. It seems they have literally put the same pads in a different box labelled DTC, and then jacked the price up because they are labelled as a "race" pad. What gives here?

Example:

Rear brakes for the s2000
R = $70
W= $95

https://www.amazon.com/Hawk-Performance ... HB145R.570
https://www.amazon.com/Hawk-Performance ... HB145W.570

Front

R = $106
W = $131

https://www.amazon.com/Hawk-Performance ... HB361R.622
https://www.amazon.com/Hawk-Performance ... HB361W.622

:?:

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2017 8:01 am

It doesn't matter because neither pad will hold up. Get DTC-60s if you want Hawk.

Matthew Ryan · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2017 8:12 am

I use the 60's up front and HP+ in rear I like them

I wish I could get a pad that ate the rotors more, rotors cost me 30 $ but pads cost me 200 $

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2017 9:19 am

JamesMilko wrote:

It doesn't matter because neither pad will hold up. Get DTC-60s if you want Hawk.

They also say my Mustang absolutely needs DTC-70s. I've run 60s, 70s and Blues. Not a nickles worth of difference in their braking ability or longevity at least in an HPDE setting. The 70s are quite a bit more money so for the last three years I've been running Hawk Blues and have been happy with them.

One note about Hawks for those unfamiliar, Hawk compounds do not play well with others, so you need a dedicated set of rotors for them.

Another option to consider is the Raybestos ST-43s. They are quite pricey, not easy to get on short notice, but they perform well and last a long time. I'd say most of the top Lemons/Chump teams run these as does our team.

Chad Culbertson · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2017 10:13 am

I ran a set DTC70s front and DTC60s rear on the Camaro, they did great stopping that 4k lb freight train from 140mph.

I agree with the dedicated rotors though, I didn't do that and ran into issue with pad material on the rotor unevenly and causing shutter.

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Thu May 11, 2017 3:04 pm

JamesMilko wrote:

It doesn't matter because neither pad will hold up. Get DTC-60s if you want Hawk.

I have DTC60s...and I hate them

I wrote this over on s2ki a few days ago

Quote:

So this weekend was my first time on Hawk front pads: DTC60s coming from Carbotech XP20s on new rotors and Maxxis RC1s. Track was CMP. Let me be clear to say it was hard for me to trust the Hawks. 40% pedal pressure yielded great initial bite, but in the event I wanted to push my braking zone further into turn 1, going 60-80% maximum initial pressure was scary, as it was not slowing the car down as fast. 40% initial and then increasing pressure was not very good, and seemed to hurt rather than help; I had to hold 40% constant. My first thought was I was hitting ABS, but getting back into the paddock the rotors showed zero signs of the tell-tell ABS chop marks on the rotor. With only 40% pressure to play with, modulation window (trail braking) was greatly decreased. The Carbotechs were awesome though...I could absolutely NAIL the brake pedal and you could really feel the intial bite was good, but I could start backing off the pedal while turning and it was way more linear than the Hawk pads. Both examples were with brand new rotors (centric blanks). Lastly, the worst part was that the Hawks did not seem consistent lap to lap. There were a handful of laps, coming into turn 1, where the Hawks weren't grabbing like the last lap, but would come back the next lap.

So I guess my question is: Is this normal and expected? Really tempted to go back to Carbo/G-loc

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu May 18, 2017 10:00 am

brettmcwhorter wrote:

JamesMilko wrote:

It doesn't matter because neither pad will hold up. Get DTC-60s if you want Hawk.

I have DTC60s...and I hate them

I wrote this over on s2ki a few days ago

Quote:

So this weekend was my first time on Hawk front pads: DTC60s coming from Carbotech XP20s on new rotors and Maxxis RC1s. Track was CMP. Let me be clear to say it was hard for me to trust the Hawks. 40% pedal pressure yielded great initial bite, but in the event I wanted to push my braking zone further into turn 1, going 60-80% maximum initial pressure was scary, as it was not slowing the car down as fast. 40% initial and then increasing pressure was not very good, and seemed to hurt rather than help; I had to hold 40% constant. My first thought was I was hitting ABS, but getting back into the paddock the rotors showed zero signs of the tell-tell ABS chop marks on the rotor. With only 40% pressure to play with, modulation window (trail braking) was greatly decreased. The Carbotechs were awesome though...I could absolutely NAIL the brake pedal and you could really feel the intial bite was good, but I could start backing off the pedal while turning and it was way more linear than the Hawk pads. Both examples were with brand new rotors (centric blanks). Lastly, the worst part was that the Hawks did not seem consistent lap to lap. There were a handful of laps, coming into turn 1, where the Hawks weren't grabbing like the last lap, but would come back the next lap.

So I guess my question is: Is this normal and expected? Really tempted to go back to Carbo/G-loc

You should consider brake cooling ducts.

I've been using Hawks almost exclusively since 2005 with no issue so it must be a personal preference thing. We recently switched to Performance Friction 08s for the front axle. The 08s are an endurance pad and we get 28-30 race hours out of them. The initial bit isn't there but they grab and hold predictably lap after lap.

An afterthought, I never liked the DTCs. They need a lot of heat to grab. HT-10s are my personal favorite.

Matthew Ryan · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2017 3:04 pm

Brett did the pads improve this weekend? I'm thinking about switching to something with a little less torque than the dtc-60 on the Mini, with the hankook rs-4 there is very little pressure difference between hard braking and hitting the abs, so much torque it makes it hard to modulate. If I had slicks I think the dtc-60 would match up better.

I might try g-lock 10's next

brettmcwhorter · **Posted:** Fri May 26, 2017 2:34 pm

Matthew Ryan wrote:

Brett did the pads improve this weekend? I'm thinking about switching to something with a little less torque than the dtc-60 on the Mini, with the hankook rs-4 there is very little pressure difference between hard braking and hitting the abs, so much torque it makes it hard to modulate. If I had slicks I think the dtc-60 would match up better.

I might try g-lock 10's next

They did actually. They felt a lot better at VIR than CMP, BUT my rotors only after 2 weekends look like they're about to give up the ghost. Definitely need to look into a more rotor-friendly pad thats not going to break the bank. I'll probably order some Hawk street/race pads for a 4 corners in June and give them a go when I head back to VIR in August. Definitely give g-locs a try. I've gone through two full sets of carbotechs and loved them all, albeit my xp10s on the front did bend on me.

@Steve, I do have front ducts.

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Hawk's marketing gimmick?

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