Thank you BMW, for reminding me why I drive Hondas.

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:57 am

It's not that I don't know how or can't do the work. It's more that they don't seem to give working on the car any consideration when they are designing it, so I have to do a lot more work that I should.

I did check out the forums and made sure to replace the starter with a '96+ model that uses regular bolts and doesn't require nuts on the back of the flange or the support bracket, since the '92 design seemed to require removing the intake manifold, but the '92 design was ridiculous in the first place.

It's happened multiple times, from the speed sensors in a Porsche 944 bell housing to the starter in an E30, and any number of quick/easy jobs on my Audi that required an hour of placing the car in "service position" and then reassembling it afterward. Then there's the Rube Goldberg collection of cables, springs, and pulleys that is the window actuator in Ricky's Volkswagen that I worked with him on because it required three hands to get it lined up. Cams have no markings and can't be touched without a $500 manufacturer tool to align them (Honda cams are marked and can be aligned with a 12mm wrench in seconds). There's more, but I'm down to 2 BMW's and I don't drive them often. The E30 is a convertible and really just for nice days when it's not too hot. The 2002 is a project that will probably take a few more years to get to. I drive it around the yard every month to make sure that it still works.

I contrast that with my Hondas/Mazdas/Toyotas/Fords/Chevys, and all of the non-German cars have been generally much easier to work on. I pulled the engine and transmission out of my S10 in not too much over an hour, and that was by myself in my driveway. When I think back to my MGs, Austin Healeys, and Triumphs, the English cars had access ports in the sheet metal anywhere there was a bolt that might be difficult to reach, so I generally just had to lift a piece of carpet and pry out a rubber plug to get access to hard-to-reach bolts. If they weren't horribly unreliable and difficult to find parts for, then I'd probably still be driving a 60's English car. Since I have to actually go places and do things, I've trended toward Fords and Hondas.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:03 pm

FWIW, I just did a clutch job on my E39 M5 three weeks ago, and it was purely straightforward and simple. The topmost bolts on the bellhousing were a bid hard to reach, which isn't uncommon, but with multiple extensions and a swivel, etc, not a problem. The only hiccup was an exhaust flange stud from the header to the pipe on one side snapped off, so that was drilled out in a couple of minutes and replaced with a bolt. The whole task was profoundly simple actually, and fortunately the new clutch with all new parts is working perfectly and is almost through its careful break-in process.

michaelsmiller · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:06 pm

What you describe here is the reason that I retired at an early age. My engineering team consisted of German engineers and world renowned Physicists writing the spec's, Chinese engineers doing the detailed design, and me in the coveted position of being responsible for the outcome. Obviously, I was placed in the middle because much was lost in the translation. They also needed someone to blame if things didn't work out. German engineers are very picky and believe that only they are masters of design. Chinese engineers believe their designs are finished if there is a remote chance that they will work and are deeply hurt if you suggest improvements. I had to hire American engineers to fix everything. My general feeling about German products, cars and dishwashers included, is that they are overly complex, elegant but fragile, and expensive to buy and repair. This is coming from a guy who had a VW that broke down thirty times in 40K miles.

Neal Harrington · **Joined:** Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:29 pm **Posts:** 106

Rant--- Does the fact that German cars insist upon using stupid wheel bolts instead of studs bother anyone else? My son has an E46 and an E91 and over the years I have yet to hear any logical reason why this is so. I have begun to chalk it up to German " if we do it this way it must be right". Hell, even Mazda was smart enough to stop using bolts on the RX-7 after the first generation!

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:13 pm

Neal Harrington wrote:

Rant--- Does the fact that German cars insist upon using stupid wheel bolts instead of studs bother anyone else? My son has an E46 and an E91 and over the years I have yet to hear any logical reason why this is so. I have begun to chalk it up to German " if we do it this way it must be right". Hell, even Mazda was smart enough to stop using bolts on the RX-7 after the first generation!

That's so they can sell you the $15 "alignment" tool to set the wheels in the correct orientation...

RickyBeam · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:02 pm

Neal Harrington wrote:

wheel bolts

It makes the hubs easier to manufacture. And the bolts are stronger, assuming you replace them periodically -- how often do you replace studs? (never) (talk to a metallurgist. every time your torque them, you're incrementally weakening them.) For 99% of cars, that's hardly an issue -- over 200k miles, they'll be torqued less than 100 times. (race car... might be torqued 100 times per year!)

It's German; an expensive, complicated pain in the ass, is a given. God help you when the asshat at AAA screws up a centering ring.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:18 pm

Neal Harrington wrote:

Rant--- Does the fact that German cars insist upon using stupid wheel bolts instead of studs bother anyone else? My son has an E46 and an E91 and over the years I have yet to hear any logical reason why this is so. I have begun to chalk it up to German " if we do it this way it must be right". Hell, even Mazda was smart enough to stop using bolts on the RX-7 after the first generation!

A logical reason from an engineer? And a from German engineer no less? Mr. Neil you are a funny guy!

Neal Harrington · **Joined:** Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:29 pm **Posts:** 106

And torqueing the bolts doesn't do the same thing to them? Sorry, still not logical.

Retired engineer who is married to a German.

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:19 pm

Well, you obviously wouldn't re-use German wheel bolts, I mean, not unless you are some kind of crazy person, or a fat stupid American.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:55 pm

Roger McDaniels wrote:

Well, you obviously wouldn't re-use German wheel bolts, I mean, not unless you are some kind of crazy person, or a fat stupid American.

If you are one of those (not you specifically Roger) who replaces that stupid phillips screw on a Honda rotor, you might as well be German.

clinehall · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:19 am

I've been watching The Man in the High Castle on Amazon. I wonder if it is a good depiction of how Hitler was able to come to power. A demented view of what it takes to make the world a perfect place. Starting with an initial premise and continue down that thought process totally committed and never considering that the current product has become a monster.

I think a scholarly paper could be written on how this has carried over to the current German Cars.

Of course, this worries me greatly when I look at my stable of cars. Am I a Nazi? I'm one quarter Jew so if I am found out it will lead to my death. I think about getting my first couple of cars back (1964 Dodge Cornet station wagon and 1972 Chevy Nova with sweet green shag carpet) and moving to South America.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:45 am

clinehall wrote:

I've been watching The Man in the High Castle on Amazon. I wonder if it is a good depiction of how Hitler was able to come to power. A demented view of what it takes to make the world a perfect place. Starting with an initial premise and continue down that thought process totally committed and never considering that the current product has become a monster.

I think a scholarly paper could be written on how this has carried over to the current German Cars.

Of course, this worries me greatly when I look at my stable of cars. Am I a Nazi? I'm one quarter Jew so if I am found out it will lead to my death. I think about getting my first couple of cars back (1964 Dodge Cornet station wagon and 1972 Chevy Nova with sweet green shag carpet) and moving to South America.

Current events also? "Make America Great Again"........

Sarah Silverman does a bit about Jews driving Mercedes cars.............. quite funny.

Pete Guthrie · **Posted:** Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:34 pm

Do the power steering pump,on a 1992 Nissan sentra ser.That was fun,or the coil packs,on a 2005 subaru impreza wrx.Or...Get the engine and trans seperate,after you clutch goes.

NickolayMilovanov · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:13 pm **Posts:** 7

call me biased, but i don't see what the deal is. if the e30 has 6 cylinder engine, then the starter location hasn't changed to many years later. i've replaced starters on few 6 cylinder e36 and e34 cars. the first one was very fun, however the rest was much easier because i knew the best way to do it. I always did it from the bottom and it took about 2 hours. 2 bolts on the mounts and two nuts on the solenoid. Replacing one on an X3 was more fun because i had to remove the manifold, but then it was easy.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:07 pm

NicklayMilovanov wrote:

call me biased, but i don't see what the deal is. if the e30 has 6 cylinder engine, then the starter location hasn't changed to many years later. i've replaced starters on few 6 cylinder e36 and e34 cars. the first one was very fun, however the rest was much easier because i knew the best way to do it. I always did it from the bottom and it took about 2 hours. 2 bolts on the mounts and two nuts on the solenoid. Replacing one on an X3 was more fun because i had to remove the manifold, but then it was easy.

2 hours to R&R a starter? On our B-series Honda we can do it in 15 minutes!

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Thank you BMW, for reminding me why I drive Hondas.

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