Lap Belts?

FrancisChan · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:42 pm

So I've removed the CG Lock from the Miata since it promoted the driver's seatbelt to fray quite a lot.

However, I like to be held in the seat for autocross and I don't have plans for a roll bar anytime soon.

My question ladies & jellyspoons, is to whether a 2 point lap belt be acceptable for purely autocross use? I plan on keeping the stock 3 point for daily driving.

Can anyone also recommend a way to mount them? I think I can use the stock bottom belt mount and maybe the bolt for the seat belt receiver?

RodneyWright · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:08 pm

I've used a quick release strap to go around my chest and the back of the seat, but that's a bit of a pain to set up correctly. Another option is to move the seat back, jerk the seat belt to get it to engage and then move the seat forward. Easier to do w/ power seats....

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:40 pm

Best bet would be to buy an out of date latch link style set of belts. Mount the lap belt, keeping the factory 3 point in place. When you autocross, use the lap belt in conjunction with the standard 3 point over top. This will allow you stay firmly planted in the seat, but allow your upper body the ability to move freely as you desire. If something bad ever happened, you will still have the 3 point shoulder belt to engage and keep you from hitting the wheel/airbag in a bad way.

I do the "locked" 3 point method Rodney mentions, but I don't want a freed up torso when autocrossing. - AB

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Try this before doing anything more ... with the stock 3-point belt, pull it across your torso, and right before clicking it in, give the end a 360 degree twist before clicking it in. The twist adds enough friction that you can pull on the shoulder to tension the lap and it stays put for the most part.

Old track instructor trick. Has worked great every time I've done or taught it.

With that said, when I was autocrossing I wore the regular 3-point plus the lap belts from my five-point harness together, just like Aaron said. That allowed for good upper body movement but planted my butt in the seat. But the twisted stock 3-point is a good compromise.

FrancisChan · **Posted:** Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:45 am

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I ran across some expired lap belts that were on sale last night, so will be going in that direction with the regular 3 point underneath.

I think down the line a rollbar, bucket seats and harnesses will be inevitable, especially if I want to get on track. This should do in the short term though.

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:35 pm

FrancisChan wrote:

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I ran across some expired lap belts that were on sale last night, so will be going in that direction with the regular 3 point underneath.

I think down the line a rollbar, bucket seats and harnesses will be inevitable, especially if I want to get on track. This should do in the short term though.

I can probably give you an old harness. I'm pretty sure there's one lurking on the Duff bus from our last belt upgrade on the race car.

FrancisChan · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:39 pm

That would be much appreciated!

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:59 pm

I'll check the bus tomorrow and let you know what I have.

JamesMilko · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:14 pm

You can use the method used for mounting car seats. Miatas may be too old though, pull the seat belt 100% to the very end, buckle it then let it retract. It should only tighten, not loosen until it gets to full retraction.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:56 pm

RodneyWright wrote:

I've used a quick release strap to go around my chest and the back of the seat, but that's a bit of a pain to set up correctly. Another option is to move the seat back, jerk the seat belt to get it to engage and then move the seat forward. Easier to do w/ power seats....

A variation on this approach it to twist the lap belt 2 or 3 times before latching and then moving the seat forward to the normal position. This tends to keep the lap belt tight without needing to "latch" the belt tensioner.

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:18 am

I found most of the pieces of our old G-Force latch-link belts, definitely enough to make a complete harness out of.

They are way out of certification and some of them were involved in a 75MPH collision, so I wouldn't trust them for collision protection, but if I just wanted to lock myself in place for autocrossing or rallycrossing, then I'd use them. I did a track day at NCCAR a couple of years ago in one of my old Civics with stock seat belts, and I'd forgotten how much easier it is to feel steering feedback and control steering input if I'm not using the wheel to hold my torso in place.

They are yours if you'd like to pick them up.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:56 am

I suspect that just about any method that binds up the belt (including twisting it a few times before latching) could potentially do damage to the belt webbing. But I had used this device previously and it worked great for me...

http://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Kids-Mig ... B000056JHP

Back when my kids were in child seats we used this and I quickly figured out it could work for autocross use. I believe it pre-dated CG lock by a few years and I think it works by a different method (similar to a ratchet tie down strap). As you can see they are discontinued by the manufacture, but maybe new old stock is still available. I assume some report somewhere gave them a bad review and said they weakened the belt. I can imagine that if you attach it to a belt that is pretty tight already and only ratchet it a tiny bit, that it would put some tight bends in the belt and stress it. But if you let it do a few revolutions to increase the radius, I think it should be fine. I never had issues with it.

Richard

FrancisChan · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:51 pm

Roger McDaniels wrote:

I found most of the pieces of our old G-Force latch-link belts, definitely enough to make a complete harness out of.

They are way out of certification and some of them were involved in a 75MPH collision, so I wouldn't trust them for collision protection, but if I just wanted to lock myself in place for autocrossing or rallycrossing, then I'd use them. I did a track day at NCCAR a couple of years ago in one of my old Civics with stock seat belts, and I'd forgotten how much easier it is to feel steering feedback and control steering input if I'm not using the wheel to hold my torso in place.

They are yours if you'd like to pick them up.

Sweet! When would be convenient to come pick up?

Roger McDaniels · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:18 pm

FrancisChan wrote:

Roger McDaniels wrote:

I found most of the pieces of our old G-Force latch-link belts, definitely enough to make a complete harness out of.

They are way out of certification and some of them were involved in a 75MPH collision, so I wouldn't trust them for collision protection, but if I just wanted to lock myself in place for autocrossing or rallycrossing, then I'd use them. I did a track day at NCCAR a couple of years ago in one of my old Civics with stock seat belts, and I'd forgotten how much easier it is to feel steering feedback and control steering input if I'm not using the wheel to hold my torso in place.

They are yours if you'd like to pick them up.

Sweet! When would be convenient to come pick up?

I'm generally here during the day on weekdays. I can also stop by on the weekends; with a race coming up next weekend I've got plenty of work to do here.

FrancisChan · **Posted:** Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:05 pm

I'll be pretty busy this weekend with the Novice school, so maybe weekend after next?

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