I am not slow I am tire challenged.

Steven Spampinato · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:56 am

I am a man fighting to be able to stay auto crossing. Day Care Bills, a fixer upper house, two young children, student loans….I am sure most of you are there or been there. I have a separate set of rims and 200 tread wear tires for autocross. I am running on some left over star spec z1s, and will run most of next season on them. How can I better preserve these tires and get “some sticky back into them.” Any additives or preservatives I can add. Any tricks to the trade?

These tires have become rather hard, and the grip is gone with them. Right now, I cannot justify blowing money on a new set.

Les Davis · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:04 pm **Posts:** 2059

This stuff may or may not work: http://www.amazon.com/Formula-V-Tire-Tr ... =formula+v

I have used it a couple times and it doesn't seem to hurt, but its very hard to get any empirical data on whether it is effective or not.

Other than that, storing the tires in climate controlled indoors environment in plastic bags is the best way to preserve the tires. I realize this is easier said then done when you are not a bachelor, but this is what I do. This won't help a tire that has already gotten hard obviously, this is just to keep them soft longer. It is the most imperative to avoid freezing a r - compound tire, and I would assume this applies to the any "summer" performance tire. Storing them outside in the summer when overnight lows are only dropping into the 60-70s is not big deal, but in the winter when the temps drop below 40, bad news.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:48 pm

With street tires there is a very good chance that the "hard" is surface only and the first run or even the drive to the event will get you back to the good stuff. I used to call what happened to tires between events "getting crusty". I have no idea whether any tire treatment will help with street tires since the compounds are intended for long term life already. A couple of layers of plastic bags and, if you have one with reasonable access, storage in a crawl space. Basically out of extreme hot or cold temps.

FYI if someone is really desperate for tires I have a set of 265/35x18 ZII's which have "some" tread depth left. They are likely to be available for the asking/dismounting unless Asheboro Ford is inclined to buy the oem Mustang 18x8 wheels the tires are on.

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:52 pm

There are two main components of tire grip. Adhesion of the rubber to the road, and the tire deforming itself into the aggregate. The adhesion is gone forever after a few months of autox and is what really gives you speed. Making the tires softer doesn't really do anything. A soft 5 year old Hoosier is still crappy.

Storage of the tires is the only thing that you can do to improve life. All tires should be unmounted after activities, drained, and placed in a trashbag at a minimum. Sunlight destroys tires so avoid it like the plague. Keep them in a dry place away from extreme temps. You can't improve life or get it back but you can sustain it.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

GRM did a controled tire test on Traction Formula-V and found that it did, in fact, lower times on their test course by a fair amount. I have used it myself and it allowed some 10 year old Azenis that had been keeping the car off the ground through freezing winters and blazing summers to perform "acceptably" at Cherry Point. The car didn't get any service during those years years after the engine finally got tired after 270+K miles including lots of track miles.
The treated tires weren't as good as new, but they were far better than the rock hard tires they had become.
And, yes Steven, you are not alone in low budget racing. When I started Autocross I mostly bought used tires and mounted them myself using two screwdrivers. Did you know that you can break the tire bead and dismount by driving over the tire laid flat on the driveway? (Not recommended for tires you may want to reuse.)

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

Oops, double entry on phone

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

I'm puzzled by Rob Keener's recommendation to "drain" the tires after each autocross. OK, there was the guy who was caught running his Sport Truck class entry with the spare filled with water at Nationals many years ago. I think the officials told him to drain his tire

But does letting the air out of the tire help preserve it?

Back to Stephen's question.. Back in the my formative autocross years one of the faster FWD drivers (Oscar) sometimes ran with comp tires on the front, streets on the back. His cars (3rd gen Civic, then a Probe GT) were very loose, but instructive.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:31 pm

Keep an eye on the rrax and local SCCA classifieds. As nearly every tire mfr is bringing new meat to the market in 2015, you could probably score lightly used sets for a nice discount as the National types buy sets to see which work best in their Street or ST* application.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

Rob didn't dream that up on his own; it is a commonly held belief that race tires (and tires in general) should be depressurized for storage. This minimizes stresses on the carcas and should avoid separation issues. This is especially true if one runs pressures above the sidewall specification.
While Oscar was running mixed tires on his Civic I was running Western Auto 205/60-13 M&S tires on my Midget (I didn't finish last much).
Charlie G

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:56 pm

How are your current street tires? If they need replacement anyway the current TW200's with full tread are perfectly safe except in snow and can last a long time. My second set of ZII's which Art just bought have about 4500 miles and aobut 76 autocross runs on concrete on a Mustang. 6/32 tread depth remaining from 9 or 10 new. The first set which is around 3/32 has 138 runs and similar highway miles. A lot depends on the cost difference between "normal" tires and TW200's in your size and "winter driving" needs.

Dick

Rob Keehner · **Posted:** Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:51 pm

Arthur McDonald wrote:

I'm puzzled by Rob Keener's recommendation to "drain" the tires after each autocross. OK, there was the guy who was caught running his Sport Truck class entry with the spare filled with water at Nationals many years ago. I think the officials told him to drain his tire

But does letting the air out of the tire help preserve it?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid.

I'd agree with Dick on the life on the street. However, during competition I think it's worse. They don't sink into the pavement and grip, they claw along the top and get shredded up. Although you can drive them to an event easily which is nice.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:26 am

Arthur McDonald wrote:

Back to Stephen's question.. Back in the my formative autocross years one of the faster FWD drivers (Oscar) sometimes ran with comp tires on the front, streets on the back. His cars (3rd gen Civic, then a Probe GT) were very loose, but instructive.

Pretty sure I'm throwing the best of last years tires on the back and only springing for 2 new fronts for 2015. Did it back in 2013 with 15's in the front and 17's in the rear. Worked surprisingly well.

Steven Carter · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:30 am

Ryan Holton wrote:

Arthur McDonald wrote:

Back to Stephen's question.. Back in the my formative autocross years one of the faster FWD drivers (Oscar) sometimes ran with comp tires on the front, streets on the back. His cars (3rd gen Civic, then a Probe GT) were very loose, but instructive.

Pretty sure I'm throwing the best of last years tires on the back and only springing for 2 new fronts for 2015. Did it back in 2013 with 15's in the front and 17's in the rear. Worked surprisingly well.

This right here.

To defray further, one could also pick up a codriver to split tire costs. That way you only have to buy one tire for the season, the codriver picks up the other one, and you run through the four current tires as rears for this season and maybe 2016.

Andrew Jonell · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:43 pm **Posts:** 1350

The extreme performance summers (Z2s, etc) wind up heat cycling out before you get to the wear bars/cords usually. An old set of Z1s that have some runs in them and a few years of DD use probably have less mechanical grip than a random all-season.

Science is weird.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:49 am

Andrew Jonell wrote:

The extreme performance summers (Z2s, etc) wind up heat cycling out before you get to the wear bars/cords usually. An old set of Z1s that have some runs in them and a few years of DD use probably have less mechanical grip than a random all-season.

Science is weird.

That's one reason why moving stock classes to street tires from R-comps isn't a huge money saver for the serious competitors since they will all have dedicated "street tires" that they mount at events, and for tour and national events, they will have freshly scrubbed in new tires.

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I am not slow I am tire challenged.

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