THSCC Forums

I just realized that I have never seen a good oil debate topic on this forum. So I'll kick it off:

What kind of oil do you think I should use in the 911 (2002 996 NA carrera, 3.6L flat 6) and why?

Seriously, I'll bow to the wisdom of those nerdier than I am about oil (I'm not very nerdy)

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

What? You don't think http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ has the answer?

What does Porsche specifiy? How would any of "us" know whether something else is better?

In the same vein, what about for a garaged "non track" 2012 Mustang 5.0 with automatic?

I'm trying to decide what oil to use for the first "I pay for it" oil change in my 5.0 Mustang with an 8 quart capacity and up to 10K oil change interval. Ford is happy with semi-synthetic which, if changed at Capital Ford using Motorcraft bulk oil, is a really good deal (less than $80 with filter I think) compared to my usual DIY, even for major brand semi-synthetic. I've read articles on the extreme test program Ford (and presumably other manufacturers) uses to qualify engines and I'll never treat an engine that way. I assume the testing is done with the recommended oil which for Ford would be Motorcraft 5W-20 semi-synthetic. If it it good enough for those tests is there really any reason to upgrade to full synthetic in our climate? It seems like from BOB that the real advantage of synthetics is cold starting wear reduction for engines that are not subject to other use extremes such as track.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

FYI for any potential relevance since I don't think Porsche is likely to have recommended a 5W-20 oil.

I'm pretty sure that Ford or Ford racing engineer types strongly recommended on Corner Carvers not running 5W-20 in the 4.6 engines for track use. I don't recall if they emphasized increasing the "20" to "30" or the "5W" to "10W" or both. I ran 10W-30 Mobil 1 in my 2001 4.6 on the assumption that the cold start flow properties of the synthetic were significantly better than the specified semi-synthetic 5W-20 in any case and I didn't care about any fuel mileage hit from the 30.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

40 weight that is ACEA A3 rated ( high HTHS viscosity). Aim for low NOACK volatility.

Flat engines are usually a bit harder on oil so something robust is probably a good bet.

I know Ram's Cayman S calls for M1 0w40 which is the only grade of M1 that I'd ever use (maybe 5w30 ESP) and is probably well suited to the 911. German Castrol Syntec 0w30 would probably work well for another off the shelf oil. Rotella T6 5w40 FTW as well. The HDEO ratings it have at least the specs of ACEA A3.

The next options would be the boutique oils: Redline, Joe Gibbs (DT40 for instance) and Amsoil (use Euro series)

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2011/2012 Autox VP
2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B

Kinematic viscosity and cold starting performance are far less related than most people think. German Castrol has a higher kinematic viscosity at 40 degC than most 5w or 10w oils despite being an 0w but has better pour point and lower pumping pressures given the oil is nearly an order of magnitude more viscous at cold start up than at operating temp. There are a couple other tests the do for cold start up but I forgot them.

_________________
2011/2012 Autox VP
2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B

Anyone reads this thread after consuming large amounts of turkey this afternoon will find themselves waking up sometime next week!

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2001 Honda S2000 - SOLD
2012 Boss 302
2003 BMW 330i

I do not have any specific recommendations for your Porsche, and I am by no means nerdier than you but I use Rotella T-6 full synthetic 5w-40 in my Miata. My laymen’s understanding is that it offers better protection than gasoline engine oils of a similar price, through a wider temperature range. Also, since T-6 is designed as diesel oil, it has higher levels of ZDDP to protect camshafts which probably is not as critical in my relatively benign DOHC engine. Apparently the amount of ZDDP in conventional gasoline engine oils has been reduced for emission reasons. I also supplement the oil with a ZDDP additive under the recommendation of Dennis Shaw which as he put it is "cheap insurance".

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92 Miata 1.9L naturally aspirated. SSM 21

As I'm sure Mike knows but others might not, an oil designated as a "racing oil" without the normal street oil additives is not a good idea for a street use car. Save the race oils for dedicated track cars which will have frequent oil changes.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I've been impressed with the rotella t6. I started using it in the M3 after Ryan recommended it and redline prices became stupid. I've used it in the mazda exclusively for 50k miles. I sent an oil analysis off in Aug. and the numbers looked good. I drive the S-H-I-T out of the mazda. Seriuosly, I abuse it and it seems to be wearing fine. I use t6 in the honda also and it's oil analysis looked perfect too.

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Silver Honda
Green Ford
Blue/White Suzuki
Red Triumph
Grey BMW

"Never let life be shaped by fear of its end"

No, you're a towel!

As Jordan pointed out, running T6 in a car that burns a lot of oil is not very good for your catalytic converter(s) due to ZDDP content. Just a heads up as cats can be expensive ( not an issue with the miata ).

Dick, not sure if your comment was regarding my post but Joe Gibbs DT40 is not a racing oil.

_________________
2011/2012 Autox VP
2013/2014.5 President
2013 Top Gun

2015 Fit

22R-EC => 4G63 => D16Y7 + D16Y8 => EJ255 + K24Z2 => K20Z3 + K24Z2 => K24Z2 + M54 => L15B

James,

I wasn't responding to your recommendations at all. The intent was since Redline and maybe Joe Gibbs and some others do make racing oils that it would be good to avoid those. FYI the Joe Gibbs sticker on my race car was an EVO Shootout requirement. I actually use Mobil1 15W-50.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT

I emailed redline about their api non-certification when I started using it in my STi and this is the response Dave sent me:

The API sets the maximum level for phosphorus in the SJ and SL oils,
this combined with zinc as zincdialkyldithiophosphate are critical
anti-wear components. The level is less than 0.1% of phosphorus, the
reasoning is that higher levels may contribute to catalytic converter
degradation in engines consuming high quantities of oil.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil

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Silver Honda
Green Ford
Blue/White Suzuki
Red Triumph
Grey BMW

"Never let life be shaped by fear of its end"

No, you're a towel!

Rotella T6 FTW

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

Sounds good to me. That's what I was planning on, good to hear that it's close to the specs of ACEA A3. The p-car doesn't appear to burn an excessive amount of oil.

FWIW, we've been running T6 in Simon also. 24+ hrs at race conditions with a good oil analysis report backs up others' consistent positive experiences.

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Why is an oil designed for diesel engines a good idea for late model catalytic converter equipped gasoline engines with things like variable valve timing?

I've read the Rotella web site which tells me why it is great for diesels but they don't say anything about gas engine use.

Thanks!

Dick

Edit to add: I found T6 specs which include recent API ratings (SM as I recall) so that helps for gas use. Next is 40 weight given the engine's hydraulic stuff like variable cam shaft control assumed 20 weight since Ford specs 5W-20.

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Dick Rasmussen

FS 50 2018 Mustang GT