THSCC Forums

Looking for recomedations on R compounds for someone who doesn't have a unlimited Budget. Opinions on:
Kuhmo V700
Hankook ??
Hoosier S03 or S04
Toyo RA-1

and any others recomeded?


Thanks
Marty

Questions for you:

Do you intend to auto-x them and use them on track?
Will you be buying another set of rims for them or running them on your existing wheels?

You may want to add the Yokohama A032's to your list, depending on your needs.

The Toyo's and the Yok's (in the original "hard" compound) are harder compound tires that work better on track than auto-x. They like a lot of heat, and also last a long time - especially the Toyo's. I've seen folks use both of those in auto-x, though. Both of these are pretty expensive, but the cost per heat cycle ratio is pretty good.

"Old" Kumho Victoracer V700 and the Yok's in the "soft" compound are probably fairly even. Both are stickier than the above tires, and the Victos are pretty cheap. I don't know of anyone around here who uses the soft Yok's. I've run the old Kumho's for a couple of years - I like them, but there are faster tires out there if I was looking to slice a few tenths off my time. I'm not...I'm looking to slice seconds, so that's a driver issue, not a tire issue.

Hankook - Ask Matt N. He had them at VIR this past weekend. From what I've read, they're more of a track R compound instead of an auto-x R tire.

"Newer" Kumho Escta V700 - similar in price to the old Victo, generally stickier, REALLY need to be shaved unless you're running them in the rain. I know of people running them on track and auto-x, but they definitely don't last as long as the old Victos.

Hoosier - either old AS303/RS303 or new A3S04 or R3S04. Expensive. Super sticky. Very short life. If you want the fastest tire and are willing to pay the price, look no farther.

Just my $.02

_________________
Tom Freeman
'98 M3/4/5 | '93 Spec3 325i | '12 TSX sport wagon | '03 Tahoe
Team Silver Bullets '91 240SX

Decided that the Azenis aren't fast enough for you after running in the TT for the first time?

I would suggest the Toyos. Also, how about the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires? If they are available in the right size (BIG if) they are almost as sticky as the Hoosier and almost as long lasting as the Toyo. But they are $$$$. But hey, you're a high roller, right?

-Matt

Yeah Matt, that and I got experience the difference myself between good street tires and true R stuff.

Also they just don't have a lot of choices in the 14" sizes for Azenis.

As Matt guessed, these will be primarily track tires. There maybe an occational AutoX though. I'll keep the Azenis as rain tires, they did pretty darn well on Sunday.

I guess I can always just buy a Radical...

I love Toyos for track and I love old Victoracers for autocross. My priorities are longevity, consistency, performance, and price.

Toyos wear like iron and get better as they wear. Highly recommended in a 225-50-14 size for the snot rocket. That's what I raced (and won) with on the Civic race car. Against people on Hoosier - Hoosiers aren't a "silver bullet". Just a little faster when new (and slower when used).

I get a LOT of autocross runs out of the Kumhos, and since they have never seemed to "hold me back", I haven't seen much of a reason to experiment.

I have run on used Hoosiers but never new ones, and when they work they work well, but eventually get really inconsistent and cause handling problems. I have never experienced a Toyo "fall off" and Kumhos only have after hundreds of heat cycles.

No experience with Ecsta V700 or Hankook. Until I have a problem with Toyo and Kumho, I probably won't get any experience either!

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Mike...are those the "new" Kumhos or what? Typically how long does a set last for auto-x? Just wondering for when my azenis run bald, but not anytime soon.

_________________
www.ncvw.org
1993 VW Corrado VR6 - DSP15 (RIP)
1986 MB 190E 2.3L 16v - STX (SOLD)
1997 BMW M3 3.2L - BS for now

Very soon there will be a new kid on the block, Cooper/Avon Tech R's.
Look like the new Hoosiers, no tread just two groves down the center. Price info I've seen is lower than Hoosiers, but more than Ecsta V700. Similar to V710s from what I remember of their prices. Have to wait to see how sticky they are.

_________________
SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

I'm running Kuhmo MX now but will likely go with the Toyo R1s next. This site seems to have pretty good prices.

http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/toyo/toyo.html

or

http://www.treadepot.com/tireswheels.c/ ... index.html

Anyone know how much a laptime can be reduced by going from 205/55R16 front and 225/50R16 rear Kuhmo MX street to 225 front and 245 rear Toyo R1 R compound tires at VIR South? Just curious on what to expect. I've always run streets.

Thanks,
Mark
944 Turbo

Probably about 2 seconds. Similar to autocross. Maybe another second because of the wider rubber.

Let me know how that shakes out next year

_________________
Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Found this list of Toyo RA-1 suppliers ...

The Tire Rack - U.S. (IN, NV) - 888-541-1777
AIM Tires - U.S. (CA) - 707-938-9193
Appalachian Race Tire - U.S. (TN) - 865-681-6622
CJ's Tires - U.S. (PA) - 610-404-0224
Frisby Performance Tire - U.S. (IL) - 800-798-7201
Phil's Tire Service - U.S. (NY) - 845-429-8943
Radial Tire - U.S. (MD) - 301-585-2740
Sports Car Tire - U.S. (DE) - 800-752-TIRE
Vilven Tire (no website) - U.S. (IL) - 800-251-0017 or 888-77-KUMHO
Bob Woodman Tires - U.S. (SC) - 843-571-2277
OnLineTires.com - ??? - 877-465-8473
1010tires.com - Canada (BC) - 888-825-MAGS
Talon Tire - Canada (QC) - 514-337-0833

Regarding Kumho and their V710:

I learned the following from Rodney at Appalachian Tire. Kumho made over 5000 710's and proceeded to test them against the DOT standard, which has been around for over 30 years. They failed repeatedly. Most tire companies would have simply gone back to the drawing board. However, Kumho couldn't do that, since over 2,200 were already out the door and on customer's cars.

Regardless of their efforts to compensate customers with Victoracer replacements and new 710's when available, their failure to thoroughly test prior to commercialization was irresponsible and negligent. Given what we've all seen in the Firestone/Ford Explorer debacle, you would think they would have understood the potential liability and been more cautious. Apparently, caution was not part of operating procedure for the small Korean tire manufacturer.

Now, since my front left Victoracer is now ready for the scrap heap, thanks to a broken steel belt, I question their QA efforts on the tire that they offer as a replacement for the 710's. I called Kumho technical assistance rep, but got no return phone call.


I think I'm done with these people and their tires. My next set of new tires will be shaved Toyo RA-1's.

_________________
Dave Phillips
78 Porsche 911 SC