Nitrogen

JohnByers · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:48 pm

I brought this that just to see if there was something that I was missing. Because it sure seemed to me like witchcraft & a bunch of b******* if you ask me.

Thanks for the reaffirming my suspicions.

Don Ingerslew · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:02 pm

Here's another version on nitro and stems. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-raci ... ascar5.htm
The Silver State also "suggests" that nitrogen be used in cars in the unlimited class. 90 miles flat out will generate a lot of heat in more ways than one. :lol:

Jeb Brookshire · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:11 pm

Todd Breakey wrote:

How did we manage to go 100+ years of using regular old compressed air in our tires without dying?

It should say something when it is the hard parkers that brag about filling their tires with nitrogen.

But let's get a professional opinion...Jeb...What do you have to say on the matter?

I personally beleive it is a scam. I am relieved that the company that I work for, now 800 stores strong, does not endorse or recommend nitro filling tires. If you want to throw away $40, just call me and I will give you my address to mail the money to.

BretLuter · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:16 pm

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

How did we manage to go 100+ years of using regular old compressed air in our tires without dying?

It should say something when it is the hard parkers that brag about filling their tires with nitrogen.

But let's get a professional opinion...Jeb...What do you have to say on the matter?

I personally beleive it is a scam. I am relieved that the company that I work for, now 800 stores strong, does not endorse or recommend nitro filling tires. If you want to throw away $40, just call me and I will give you my address to mail the money to.

I'm glad to hear someone in the business feels this way.

I don't have a problem with people trying to make money in new and innovative ways, but the "sales pitch" BS surrounding nitrogen in tires is unbelievable. They basically try to make it sound like it's some sort of magic potion that makes your car ride better, safer and makes your tires AND wheels last longer. What really pisses me off more than anything is that they seem to have alot of success selling this stuff to people who don't know any better- then they give them a big dose of fear/guilt by making it sound like they have to continue topping off their tires with nitrogen if they ever lose pressure.

UGH!!!!!!1 :evil:

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:27 pm

BretLuter wrote:

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

How did we manage to go 100+ years of using regular old compressed air in our tires without dying?

It should say something when it is the hard parkers that brag about filling their tires with nitrogen.

But let's get a professional opinion...Jeb...What do you have to say on the matter?

I personally beleive it is a scam. I am relieved that the company that I work for, now 800 stores strong, does not endorse or recommend nitro filling tires. If you want to throw away $40, just call me and I will give you my address to mail the money to.

I'm glad to hear someone in the business feels this way.

I don't have a problem with people trying to make money in new and innovative ways, but the "sales pitch" BS surrounding nitrogen in tires is unbelievable. They basically try to make it sound like it's some sort of magic potion that makes your car ride better, safer and makes your tires AND wheels last longer. What really pisses me off more than anything is that they seem to have alot of success selling this stuff to people who don't know any better- then they give them a big dose of fear/guilt by making it sound like they have to continue topping off their tires with nitrogen if they ever lose pressure.

UGH!!!!!!1 :evil:

isn't that the same formula that Fox News uses to survive? :soap:

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

BretLuter wrote:

Jeb Brookshire wrote:

Todd Breakey wrote:

How did we manage to go 100+ years of using regular old compressed air in our tires without dying?

It should say something when it is the hard parkers that brag about filling their tires with nitrogen.

But let's get a professional opinion...Jeb...What do you have to say on the matter?

I personally beleive it is a scam. I am relieved that the company that I work for, now 800 stores strong, does not endorse or recommend nitro filling tires. If you want to throw away $40, just call me and I will give you my address to mail the money to.

I'm glad to hear someone in the business feels this way.

I don't have a problem with people trying to make money in new and innovative ways, but the "sales pitch" BS surrounding nitrogen in tires is unbelievable. They basically try to make it sound like it's some sort of magic potion that makes your car ride better, safer and makes your tires AND wheels last longer. What really pisses me off more than anything is that they seem to have alot of success selling this stuff to people who don't know any better- then they give them a big dose of fear/guilt by making it sound like they have to continue topping off their tires with nitrogen if they ever lose pressure.

UGH!!!!!!1 :evil:

Even worse to me are the claims that it "leaks out slower so you don't need to check your tire pressures as often". Most people think tire pressures are a warranty item on a car, the last thing you need to do is convince them that they can check them even LESS often.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

And though I am loathe to say it...the winning response belongs to Vincent Keene

Quote:

What I want to know is how the regular "air" is being evacuated from the tire getting filled with nitrogen?

I believe that the installer should dismount the tire in a fully enclosed nitrogen environment and then finish the pressurization. Either that or vacuum pump all the air out of the tire like servicing an AC unit.
Charlie G

Carl Fisher · **Posted:** Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:44 pm

And how would you know if your tires actually got filled with 100% nitrogen as opposed to the 80% blend? Is there any way to tell without a spectrometer? I'd be interested in seeing some test results of what's underneath everyone's green caps.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:50 pm

Charlie Guthrie wrote:

And though I am loathe to say it...the winning response belongs to Vincent Keene

Quote:

What I want to know is how the regular "air" is being evacuated from the tire getting filled with nitrogen?

I believe that the installer should dismount the tire in a fully enclosed nitrogen environment and then finish the pressurization. Either that or vacuum pump all the air out of the tire like servicing an AC unit.
Charlie G

That's why I brought up dual valve stem wheels, which very few people have and even then you can't guarantee all the air and condensed moisture within the tire was displaced with pure nitrogen.

And even vacuum pumping a tire wouldn't work as it would debead the tire and let in air. And yet again, it's hard to get all the moisture out unless the tire is heated to above the dew point so all the moisture is evaporated off the inside surface of the tire.

Basically, there is no such thing as a tire full of 100% pure, dry nitrogen

.

Charlie Guthrie · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:14 pm **Posts:** 832

James, James, James surely you noticed the tongue in cheek tone when I suggested using a vacuum pump. That would be fun to watch as the tire shriveled up until it collapsed off of the wheel.

Quote:

And even vacuum pumping a tire wouldn't work as it would debead the tire and let in air.

I really prefer the totally enclosed, dry nitrogen chamber with robot arms to mount the tire. :lol:

Charlie G

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:17 pm

I can't speak to what kind of method they use to test it, but when Sturdivant's (many club members are familiar with them from back in the Oscar days) went to their Nitrogen system they tried to up-sell us on it. Well, I don't think they charge any extra, but they use it as a "bring it back to us" tactic. Anyway, we explained that we know what we're doing and actually use nitrogen already in our race tires. They asked how we handled it, and basically we just said we just filled with nitrogen to begin with and stayed that way. I don't remember the math for sure, but that first fill is adding a LOT of volume over what's just in there at zero PSI, so the 20% that wasn't nitrogen to begin with is QUICKLY diluted. Air down and refill a bunch with pure nitrogen (which is going to happen at the track) and you're going to get VERY close to 100%. The Sturdivant's guy wasn't so sure and asked us if we'd bring in one of our race tires for them to "check." Turns out we were right...it tested something like 98% and their system generally only gets to 97% or something like that.

And I think they do "vacuum" the tire. They use the nitrogen system to set the bead, vacuum, and then fill again. No, you don't pull a perfect vacuum and certainly you don't pull enough to de-bead, but you can pull MOST of the "bad stuff" out of there.

My guess is the system isn't cheap, but they finance it attractively enough and have a good enough sales pitch on how it is proven to both help initial sales, but more-so return business, that it actually does make sense for places like Sturdivants, especially since it probably also replaces their air compressor and separator systems and such and probably extends air tool life a little bit to boot.

Does that mean consumers need to bother with it? Nope.

--Donnie

KendtEklund · **Joined:** Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:29 pm **Posts:** 1204

Well there you go - Because Race Car...

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:36 pm

i'm thinking nitrogen filled insoles for my work boots might make my day flow in a mo' positive way. :thumbsup:

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:58 am

I gotta say, I'm pretty surprised at this thread. I think nitrogen is absolutely worth the cost for an autocross or track car. For a daily-driver-only, yes, it's marketing BS (especially about it not leaking out as fast -- wtf?).

Running nitrogen for the past couple years, I have learned that it saves me from having to bleed during a heat and re-add air after the event. Nitrogen does expand when hot, but not nearly as much as air does (and yes, I am aware it's not pure nitrogen, :roll:

point still applies). If I have my tires set to 32psi cold, then on a hot July autocross day and the car is sitting in the sun on hot tarmac the pressures would get up to 42-45psi after a run or two. This makes the car feel like it's skating and I have to let air out to achieve the appropriate pressure for good grip. But then when I get home and drive to work the next day, they only have ~27psi in them, and I'm not getting optimal fuel economy and I have to add more air to get them back to where they need to be for daily driving (or the next event in colder temperatures).

With nitrogen, however, I can have them set to 32psi and even on the hottest autocross days the highest I have ever seen is 35-36psi, and this is perfectly acceptable for good grip in my car on hot tires. At the end of the event, I drive home and the next morning they're back at 32psi and I'm good for daily driving.

Maybe I'm lazy, but one extra thing I have to do during and after an autocross is not something I really want to do if I can easily avoid it.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:39 am

If you used dry air, it wouldn't be as big a deal. It's the percent moisture in 'air' that makes it's pressure rise per unit temperature greater than dry air, or dry nitrogen. It's only exacerbated by humid NC summers where you are using 12v pumps that are sucking in ambient, wet air. Put a drier inline with standard air compressor to fill up your tires, you'd notice a much smaller coefficient of thermal expansion.

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