Crash bolt thingies

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:29 am

For those that run (or have run) with crash bolts (camber adjusters or whatever you call them). Do you set them at max – which seems to be 1.5 to 2deg negative – and leave them there all the time? Assuming it’s a daily driver, do you have tire wear issues?

When I ran my 1st gen F-body, I had shim packs for the upper control arms so I could quickly change the camber from street to autocross (I really miss that). When I ran the FWD, I had camber plates and would set the camber and toe for autocross on Friday night and set it back on Sunday night (or Monday). I grew very weary of constantly changing camber & toe (I was doing the rears too) but I didn’t want to wear out my street tires with 2-3deg of camber.

So now I’m back to a RWD, but with front struts instead of double A-arms. Obviously, a little camber in front will be helpful, but I’d prefer not to wear out the street meats. Not sure the eccentric bolts lend themselves to quick and repeatable changes.

Thoughts from the vast well of knowledge?

Thanks!

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:32 am

Cash Davidson wrote:

For those that run (or have run) with crash bolts (camber adjusters or whatever you call them). Do you set them at max – which seems to be 1.5 to 2deg negative – and leave them there all the time? Assuming it’s a daily driver, do you have tire wear issues?

Generally speaking "wear issues" are caused by toe-in/out conditions problems, not negative camber.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:33 am

Vincent Keene wrote:

Cash Davidson wrote:

For those that run (or have run) with crash bolts (camber adjusters or whatever you call them). Do you set them at max – which seems to be 1.5 to 2deg negative – and leave them there all the time? Assuming it’s a daily driver, do you have tire wear issues?

Generally speaking "wear issues" are caused by toe-in/out conditions problems, not negative camber.

Edit: Once you set the camber/toe you don't want to change it as one adversly affects the other.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:48 am

I agree with Vincent.

However the herra frushers tend to have bad inside shoulder wear due to large amounts of negative camber because those cars can't turn worth a crap so they never compress enough to actually flatten the contact patch to even out the wear.

-1.5 on the stang that is autocrossed will not suffer from this issue because you'll roll into even or positive camber anyway in high G turns

.

But toe is a tire killer. I run 0.1* front and rear toe out right now without insane tirewear though. Probably going to run more rear toe for autox and then reset it before I drive home.

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:56 am

Alignment is way over rated. During Friday practice I went off entering turn 3 at VIR and side punched the tire wall. Carving in the drivers front fender and door. Drove it back into the paddock and hammered out the fender and door. My friend Mike Morris comes over to offer his alignment tools. I looked at the front wheels, they seemed straight. I told Mike I had not had the car aligned for 2 years...so probably would not help.

Went out Saturday took the pole, ran my fastest lap ever and won both races.

I think I might get it aligned before February's race :-)

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:58 am

Cash,
I ran my 08' with the camber bolts set at -1.6 or so on both sides. Left them there all the time. I traded the car in at 36k miles and the stock tires were getting near the wear bars, but were evenly worn.

I'd install the bolts set at max (-1.5 to 2.0), get a front end alignment to check the toe, then forget about it.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:59 am

JamesShort wrote:

I agree with Vincent.

-1.5 on the stang that is autocrossed will not suffer from this issue because you'll roll into even or positive camber anyway in high G turns

.

But toe is a tire killer. I run 0.1* front and rear toe out right now without insane tirewear though. Probably going to run more rear toe for autox and then reset it before I drive home.

Thanks for the quick feedback, guys!

I'm not worried about the camber wear on my sticky tires. I was more worried about street tire wear during the 99% of the time I'm not autocrossing.

Also, toe is no problem. I don't mind changing that before and after each event.

Cash Davidson · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:23 pm

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Cash,
I ran my 08' with the camber bolts set at -1.6 or so on both sides. Left them there all the time. I traded the car in at 36k miles and the stock tires were getting near the wear bars, but were evenly worn.

I'd install the bolts set at max (-1.5 to 2.0), get a front end alignment to check the toe, then forget about it.

Thanks, Mike. Exactly what I wanted to hear.

Michael Westerfield · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:46 pm

Cash Davidson wrote:

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Cash,
I ran my 08' with the camber bolts set at -1.6 or so on both sides. Left them there all the time. I traded the car in at 36k miles and the stock tires were getting near the wear bars, but were evenly worn.

I'd install the bolts set at max (-1.5 to 2.0), get a front end alignment to check the toe, then forget about it.

Thanks, Mike. Exactly what I wanted to hear.

I didn't specifiy, but I installed them probably around 5k miles. So, they were on there for a while.

Oh, make sure you TQ those boys to the recommended 150ftlbs. There was a thread somewhere on SCCA's forum where some of the national FS boys were cracking the knuckle if those came loose.

I believe Art, Rodney, and myself were checking ours every now and again. I never found mine loose, but I did make sure they were tq'd properly from the start.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:52 pm

My 01 Mustang GT (Street only, mostly freeway except for a couple of "play" ramps :lol:

) probably gets BETTER front tire wear due to max camber which is probably in the range the newer Mustangs get with camber bolts. Reduces the outside edge wear that we get on our 97 Mustang which is still "stock" camber.

With my 88 Mustang which I autocrossed the at the site tire changing routine included making a half turn or whatever on the tie rods to get toe out for the event. Turned it back when changing to street tires. Number of turns was predetermined using my hi tech alignment rack (string and a metal ruler).

I don't know if the new Mustangs have any need for toe out which is mostly a substitute for Ackermann which the 88 had very little of.

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Cash Davidson wrote:

Michael Westerfield wrote:

Cash,
I ran my 08' with the camber bolts set at -1.6 or so on both sides. Left them there all the time. I traded the car in at 36k miles and the stock tires were getting near the wear bars, but were evenly worn.

I'd install the bolts set at max (-1.5 to 2.0), get a front end alignment to check the toe, then forget about it.

Thanks, Mike. Exactly what I wanted to hear.

I didn't specifiy, but I installed them probably around 5k miles. So, they were on there for a while.

Oh, make sure you TQ those boys to the recommended 150ftlbs. There was a thread somewhere on SCCA's forum where some of the national FS boys were cracking the knuckle if those came loose.

I believe Art, Rodney, and myself were checking ours every now and again. I never found mine loose, but I did make sure they were tq'd properly from the start.

I didn't see any unusual tire wear due to the extra camber. Mine is set to 1/16" toe out and I don't fiddle around with it at events.

I did have it realigned once - was chasing a front suspension noise and was suspicious that something had moved. (The noise turned out to be a loosened end link attachment bolt on the front strut.) From what I saw Mark Cooper and his tech have to do to set camber with the crash bolts, you don't want to be doing that at an autocross.

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