S2000 differential busted

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:08 pm

Well, hang on, I missed this part:

Keith Vail wrote:

All the S2000's have the same final drive but the trick is are the AP1 and AP2 diff housings different. If so has Honda superceded the old part with the new?

I think so. When I looked up differential parts on Majestic Honda's website, the part number for the entire assembly was listed as the same part number for both a 2002 and a 2004. That's the best evidence I can come up with on a Monday night that Honda has superceded the AP1 part with the AP2 part. I didn't go through every item line by line, just the entire $2700 or so assembly. There could be a difference there.

JamesShort · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:15 pm

As far as I'm concerned via reading the SCCA rules. If I got to Honda and say "hey parts man/woman, give me a full diff unit for a 20002 S2000, here is my VIN (to put in a 02 s2000) and the part they give me is the diff out of a 2008 S2000, then not only am I stock legal, but I'm STR and BSP legal if I want to be.

If a mfg has a TSB or whatever that fully replaces a 'faulty' or less than ideal part then that is the new 'stock' part.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:19 pm

Yeah, if a part gets superseded with a newer part in the manufacturers system, it's stock legal. 100%.

--Donnie

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:53 pm

A quick google and I found this (and surely, the INTERNETS can't be wrong!):

http://s2000.com/forums/engine-tech-dri ... #post17628

This supports the theory of AP2 diff now being the OEM replacement part for an AP1, a.k.a. a "stock" part, as well as physically compatible (they only mention a "small change" to the casing's exterior). Interestingly, Honda's own HPD parts site lists both part numbers as seemingly duplicate items for 2002 and 2004 models

. However, Honda Parts Now clearly shows that the original part was replaced by the AP2 (and used by '00-'07 -- wasn't '08 when they added VSA?).

I don't know about the SCCA rules, but if it's between a $3K AP1 diff and a $550 AP2, then to hell with the rules and I'll deal with the classing consequences. This is my daily driver (and my only car) and I hardly have cash like this for repair bills.

As for fluid, I've been using the OEM fluid and changing it (and transmission fluid) every-other oil change, a.k.a 15K miles. In fact, the fluid was changed only 8.5K miles before it failed. I'm with you, Karl: nothing wrong with over-maintaining, especially when it comes to fluids since they are (relatively) cheap compared to the investment you are protecting.

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:21 am

JamesShort wrote:

Keith, how was your diff fluid fried? Just discolored? At 7500 miles (4000 miles on the fluid) my rear diff fluid was greyish....UOA comes back perfect....still completely in viscosity grade, and friction modifiers and add pack still very strong. Testament to the color means nothing for the lubricant argument.

Very true. It was dark grey and had that burnt smell. Something I had never encountered with Mobil 1 before and I have run it in all my autocross cars. This is only in my rear diff. My transmission fluid is as clean when I drain it as it is when I fill it with fresh fluid and my engine oil is pretty close to the same. I change my transmission fluid every 10,000 miles and my engine oil every 3,000 miles.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:33 am

VSA showed up in 2006 with the electronic throttle cars.

I really do think you're fine, from a rules perspective, buying an AP2 diff. Between the two of us, we have searched two separate online Honda parts suppliers, and both list the same part number for an AP1 as they do an AP2. Furthermore, I did eventually look through some of the individual part numbers on the "Rear Differential" page at Majestic Honda. The part numbers I looked at were identical between 2002 and 2004 cars for those individual parts, as well as for the entire differential assembly.

If I happen to see someone selling a diff somewhere, I'll pass the info along to you. I see them turn up pretty regularly on s2ki.

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:47 am

I just did a quick search at work, Wagners Auto Salvage. One of my SUPER GOOD friends in Winston Salem, Lewisville Auto Salvage, has one out of a 2005 s2k with 7,000 miles on it. I called to verify he had it and he still does, he also said that he would do $600 picked up in Winston Salem. I deal with Darren ONLY for this deal. Hope this helps

http://wagnersauto.car-part.com/cgi-bin ... zv7%3B9%3B

Jeremy,
call me if there is anything else i can help with. 610-8069

Keith Vail · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:51 am

Zach also keep an eye on Ebay. Complete rear diff assemblies come up on there from time to time in the $500-700 range. I would go with the AP2 assembly because it does appear to be the Honda recommended replacement now for all S2000 from what I can tell as well.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:18 am

jeremy gast wrote:

out of a 2005 s2k with 7,000 miles on it. I called to verify he had it and he still does, he also said that he would do $600 picked up in Winston Salem.

Zach - this sounds promising. Especially a 7K mile one. Were you to find one on s2ki.com for a bit less, you'd then have to figure out a way to ship it. And, if Lewisville Auto Salvage will provide some kind of guarantee that it's functional, that's a bit more peace of mind than buying one from "s2kap1ftmftwyo' on s2ki. :lol:

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:30 am

jeremy gast wrote:

I just did a quick search at work, Wagners Auto Salvage. One of my SUPER GOOD friends in Winston Salem, Lewisville Auto Salvage, has one out of a 2005 s2k with 7,000 miles on it. I called to verify he had it and he still does, he also said that he would do $600 picked up in Winston Salem. I deal with Darren ONLY for this deal. Hope this helps

I was looking at an '04 with 17K miles for $550 shipped on S2KI, but this looks to be an even better deal.

Just spoke with Darren, he says it's still there and in good condition, and comes with a 90-day warranty(!!!). I'm going to see if I can get off work and go pick this thing up today =)

THANK YOU, JEREMY!

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:37 am

Dammit, Karl! But "s2kap1ftmftwyo" is my good friend!!! :lol2:

jeremy gast · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:41 am

Zach call me, 919-544-1729 ext 225 i got an idea to save you a trip!!!!

JamesShort · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:06 am

Geeze, after reading this last night, I open the garage this morning and see a little drop on the floor below my diff! Looks like my diff seal will be getting replaced prior to getting the Bilsteins which is likely to be a few more weeks.

My experience with FWD Honda transaxles in regards to axle seals and/or rear main seals is that they seep, they seep, they seep..........full failure....oil all over the floor/highway etc. So I better get mine fixed soon!

Zach, let me know if you need help installing the new one.

Zach Hill · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:19 am

Aw man! Sorry to hear about the leak, James. Just don't let the fluid get low; I hear that, uhm, bad things can happen ;-)

Since my car is already at Jake's they said they'll charge $300 including the diagnostic they've already done to install the diff I'm getting through Jeremy. That seems okay to me, especially since I don't have to mess with doing the install in my garage on jack stands in this June heat. Does that seem reasonable?

Thanks everyone for the excellent advice in this thread. This is an awesome community and I'm proud to be a part of it! :toast:

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:30 am

Zach Hill wrote:

Since my car is already at Jake's they said they'll charge $300 including the diagnostic they've already done to install the diff I'm getting through Jeremy. That seems okay to me, especially since I don't have to mess with doing the install in my garage on jack stands in this June heat. Does that seem reasonable?

That seems reasonable to me. That'd be four hours of shop time. I have a spare diff for my car, and can tell you that they are heavy. I mean, like, REALLY heavy. It's not something I think I'd want to take out and replace in my garage, on my back, with the diff seeping oil while sitting on my chest, crushing the life out of me. I would happily pay someone $300 to not have to suffer through that misery.

Bring them whatever fluid you choose to use. If you want to use the LE stuff, Auto Sport Gallery actually has it in stock in Raleigh. Tom's not the cheapest guy in the world, but he's local.

Disclaimer: I don't like working on cars very much. So consider the source. :lol:

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