AV Gas Source for Race Cars in Triangle?

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun May 30, 2010 9:29 pm

Any source of AV gas in the Triangle (preferably at RDU since I live a few miles from there) that will sell for race car use (i.e. my FF)?

Part way through my 4th and 5th runs in 89 degree heat today at the Dinwiddie site my engine showed "classic" signs of the hot fuel flash I mentioned in my long posts about fuel volatility and how it can be higher for E10. I still have plenty of other potential causes of the problem, none of which can be duplicated with a formula car on the street . . . but I know AV gas wouldn't have the heat problem.

Thanks,

Dick

BretLuter · **Posted:** Sun May 30, 2010 11:45 pm

This question pops up around here every once in a while. Seems that the airport is a PITA place to get fuel- but some THSCC member works there (Todd Breakey??) so maybe he can address this issue with more details.

Other than that, the gas station at the corner of Kildaire Farm + Maynard Rd in Cary has carried 100 octane unleaded for many years at the pump- I have not been there in a while so I don't know if this is still true.

Steve Ashworth's race shop/store in Fuquay was also mentioned as a source for race fuel- I know the shop is still there, just not sure if they still sell race fuel.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 9:07 am

Bret's right. I work at RDU for one of the general aviation fuel suppliers.

Technically it is against the law to sell avgas for use in cars due to the lead content in the fuel. But that is for road going cars. Race cars get into the gray area. The company I work for (Landmark Aviation) won't sell avgas without putting it directly into the aircraft. We won't sell it into a gas can. Our competition at RDU has the same policy.

HOWEVER, some of the smaller gen av airports in the area (Franklin co., Lee co, Lake Ridge Airport) *might* sell into a gas can. It is worth calling the airport to find out. With the economy the way it has been they are probably more desperate for money.

You said you are near RDU. Because of that I would recommend trying Lake Ridge. It is somewhere between Raleigh and Durham.

For referance, we are currently selling avgas at $6.50 per gallon. The smaller airports are going to be ~$1.25 per gallon cheaper.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 9:50 am

Thanks guys!

I'll "work" the other possible causes! I can go to an electric pump in a cooler location as well as try to find a race gas supplier locally.

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 11:10 am

DickRasmussen wrote:

Thanks guys!

I'll "work" the other possible causes! I can go to an electric pump in a cooler location as well as try to find a race gas supplier locally.

The BP off of Maynard rd in Cary used to sell 100 octane. You can also order race gas in the 55 gallon drums from any of the race fuel suppliers.

Edit: I was curious and called the BP station. They still sell it. It's 7.69 a gallon.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 11:19 am

MarcusMcRae wrote:

It's 7.69 a gallon.

HOLY CRAP!!! I thought we were expensive at $6.50!!!

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 12:21 pm

One of the reasons I like pump gas (if it will still work) is the convenience. Price just adds an incentive (I don't use much fuel in the race car).

I intend to:
1) Rebuild/clean the Weber 2 barrel that may have crap in it somewhere
2) Check the mechanical fuel pump for dead fuel cell foam (the filter is after the pump . . . I don't know why I did that other than to not "suck through" the filter)
3) Try a different rev limiter since the problem happened after I hit the rev limiter on the 2 runs. However, the previous run was fine and I hit the rev limiter then
4) Make sure the carb float setting is OK
5) Make sure the new foam in the old fuel cell isn't blocking flow
6) Consider changing to an electric pump in a "less hot" location

Unfortunately it is really hard to simulate the autocross conditions with a race car without putting it on a chassis dyno . . . not likely!

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 1:47 pm

Dick, I'll bet dropping the "Formula Fit" motor in there would fix all these problems. Not sure that's autocross legal (yet), but sounds a lot more fun than monkeying with carbs to me.

--Donnie

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 3:32 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Dick, I'll bet dropping the "Formula Fit" motor in there would fix all these problems. Not sure that's autocross legal (yet), but sounds a lot more fun than monkeying with carbs to me.

--Donnie

Donnie,

I suspect it is autox legal but it certainly isn't in my budget even if there were a conversion kit for an 85 Van Diemen. Plus so far the Fit restrictor is so small my sick engine may make more power. :lol:

I MAY decide to change to the legal aluminum head someday.

FYI I have only had to monkey with the carb one other time. It got some debris in one of the emulsion tubes (or similar location) many years ago. Fixed it easily at home and haven't had a problem since until yesterday.

Fortunately a FF weber is very simple. I've done basic carb rebuilding off and on since the 1960's so taking one apart, cleaning, and putting fresh gaskets in is no problem other than the "rust on my skill set" :wink:

There is a good chance the problem is the rev limiter anyway but the carb is long overdue for cleaning and fresh gaskets and checking float level.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon May 31, 2010 8:13 pm

Yeah, I knew you'd have some sort of reasoning like that. I just want to see someone do it.

For those unaware, Honda is using that Fit motor in a lot of places. It's the same engine you'll find in their 75 and 90HP outboards (with the next step up being Accord motors). Pretty nice to see a company start to re-use some technology like that. Usually leads to some nice innovations on down the line, too.

--Donnie

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:43 pm

Brief update on my possible vapor lock/hot fuel flash E10 gas problem with my race car.

Carb had a piece of silicon rubber from my airbox stuck in the secondary air correction jet above the emulsion tube. Not good and a likely cause of the problem. Cleaned all carb passages, etc. but found no other problems.

Replaced MSD rev limiter with a rev limiting rotor.

Replaced block mounted mechanical fuel pump with an electric pump from Jay Ivey (MAJOR formula ford engine guy). Plenty of fuel flow so fuel cell foam apparently isn't blocking inlet.

Will replace coil.

I really don't want the logistics hassles of finding/storing race gas so hopefully the remote mounted electric pump will deal with possible vapor lock.

Dick

SebastianKokoszka · **Posted:** Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:45 am

If anyone is interested in high octane fuel in the Raleigh area I figured out how/where to get it...
just head up to wake county speedway on a friday before the night race starts... They have Sunoco 110 and 112. $8 a gallon and cash only

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:40 pm

FYI if anyone "cares" my Greenville problem was almost for sure a combination of the electric pump mounted too high (electrics usually don't suck well) and possible intermittent blockage of the pickup in the cell due to replacement foam not being able to be "notched" at the pickup.

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