THSCC Forums

i'm having visions of you driving with one finger during that one night event...

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05 MCS

Shuffle steer is good, but not too much of it. Kendra, bless her heart, is an obsessive-compulsive shuffle steerer. She's trying to kick the habit - she will typically turn the wheel through about 25 degrees of input before shuffling. That's too much time spent not gripping the wheel, like Shawn mentioned.

I think that in most autocross turns I grab the wheel up high and pull the wheel down to enter, locking the lower hand on the wheel while dialing in. Make sense?

Basically, maximize the time your right hand is on the right half of the wheel, and vice versa. Minimize the number of times you need to let go of the wheel to reposition.

Yup, that's it.

(PS - passengers tell me that I regularly let go of the steering wheel with both hands to catch a spin. I am not at all aware of doing that! Goes to show you that you NEED to create your steering habits on the street. Then it's all "right brain" instinct when you get to the track)

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

Yep. It's out on loan right now, but I think Going Faster actually comes right out and says to shuffle in a sedan-based car.

I find shuffle steering troublesome in a lot of autocross situations, like tight slaloms. Can't do it fast enough. But sweepers and turnarounds, I do it like Whitney described above (good description BTW)

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

Ok, what is "grip & go"? I'll confess to being a shuffle steering driver since before 1987. I do it religiously, all the time, subconciously, but I will confess (as did Mike) that I sometimes spin the wheel with no hands, but that only happens during Major corrections.
Just before entering a turn, I preset my hands so that upon entering the turn my hands are at 3 & 9 through most of the turn. The 3 & 9 position is also known as the strong hand position because it gives you the best feel and most precision for making those very subtle steering changes that are necessary when on the ragged edge.
The other advantage with the 3 & 9 position is that if your torso shifts due to cornering forces, the net result on the steering wheel is negligible. As an experiment to prove this to your self, sit behind the wheel and grip it at top and bottom then lean left and right. Notice that the top hand moves the wheel more than the lower hand. This has the effect of opening the wheel when G forces move the torso to the outside of the turn.
If you are having trouble shuffle steering at high speed in offset gates or slaloms, you just need to practice more, it can be done. Now the unvarnished truth. In really choppy turns, if the steering input is 45 degrees of wheel motion or less, I don't bother to move my hands (uh...let go of the wheel..."not moving my hands" is what happens when I'm lost). I transfer grip at the top of the wheel and at the bottom during big turns, and usually use the "lifting" hand to do the work (that transfers the work forces directly into the seat and does not tend to lift me out of the seat.
Ok, too much information. It would be interesting to do a discussion group on this topic at a gathering sometime, since the embellishment could be more lively and not limited by typing skill.
Charlie Guthrie

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1998 BMW Z3
1987 BMW 325is
2000 BMW
1996 F250 Turbo Diesel

Confirmed shuffle steering here. Not that I started that way. After reading Watts' book I figured I'd try it. Since no matter how many HPDEs and Autocrosses I attend, 99% of my annual "seat" time is everyday driving.

I'd bet that's even true for a Mike Whitney who never misses an event.

So I needed something that would be functional on the street as well as the track since *way* too much is happening in a HPDE or AutoX for me to change my steering style just for those events. If my street/track seat time percentages were different, I might have a different answer.
The point about not knowing "straight ahead" is valid, but the attributes that Ron and Charlie mentioned outweigh it for me. Even when I let go of the wheel ...
YMMV
Frank

After the last Sanford Autocross, I can no longer say that if you can't keep up shuffle steering then you need more practice.....Aparrently what I needed was an attitude adjustment, which I got. Spin and grab, yeah, that's my new style.
Charlie G

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1998 BMW Z3
1987 BMW 325is
2000 BMW
1996 F250 Turbo Diesel

Yes.

My RallyTruck had many many turns lock to lock. And there are plenty of full lock turns in the course of a rally. I can remember multiple turns where, without looking AT the wheel, I was waiting for that tape to show up... And since your sliding all around anyway, the feel of the wheel may not provide much feedback.

Perhaps that's why you usually only see these stripes built into the wheels on the "Rally edition".

Of course, it's one of those things you need to get used to.

Me, I'm a 9 and 3 unless I need to turn more, and then I release the arm that is in the way and steer with just the one. If I need to steer more than *that*, I usually hit the brakes.

Anders

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Lina Racing: As Seen On Radio

I tried shuffle steering at CMP for the first time. Picked it up in a session or two so it's worth a try for those on the fence, just take it slow the first few laps. I don't know if it's better. My instructor stated that it allows you to catch a spin easier since your hands are always in a good position (not crossed over). I did catch a spin at CMP and the hand position did seem to make it easier. He also mentioned that you should not grip around with your thumb but should keep on the front of the steering wheel (part facing the driver). The theory being that you won't break them in a crash. Makes sense. I'm going to keep with shuffle steering for now.

Mark (944 Turbo)