Need a new race car

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:19 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

No, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying (unsuccessfully :lol:

) to say is that some sort of M motor swap may well prove reliable, and fast enough. What I am saying is that it's not the route I would take. The stuff you're describing - engine swaps, aggressive lightweighting, that sort of thing - sounds like a lot of work. Expensive work. It might be super fast and super reliable, I'm not expert enough on BMWs to say. Given your frustrations with trying to get the RSX to work, I'm suggesting looking at stuff that you won't have to re-engineer in order to make it do what you want.

For what it's worth, here are the lap records at VIR as of May of this year. A T1 Corvette has a 2:01.246.

http://www.ncrscca.com/Pdf/TrackRecords ... y_2009.pdf

T1 is pretty mild stuff as race car builds go. Less exotica often means less stuff to go wrong. If I were in your position, I'd get on the phone with Phoenix (or whoever is building the top T1 cars these days) and get one of those.

Trust me, a Phoenix prepped T1 Vette is going to cost out the arse. I get what you're saying, but the handling part of the E36 has already been sorted out pretty dang well. With the RSX we were in fairly uncharted territory and having to get shit direct from Japan to get the thing CLOSE to right. It's still not right.

So with the E36, the question mark to me is the motor. I know it can be done, I just don't know how much it would cost. *shrug* Otherwise, the cars are pretty bullet-proof, too. I mean an E36 keeps winning this dumb thing and doing it with much slower times than what I'm after. So I'm probably being a bit too aggressive in what I want out of the car in terms of performance, but hey, better to be that direction (somewhat) than the other.

Funny that the ITE track record is just a 2:04. Now I want to beat that. Damn, it's another Corvette, too!

Someone just pointed out to me that the 13 is on Halloween weekend. So we could go as "Vette guys" for Halloween.

--Donnie

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:22 pm

Karl Shultz wrote:

For what it's worth, here are the lap records at VIR as of May of this year. A T1 Corvette has a 2:01.246.

http://www.ncrscca.com/Pdf/TrackRecords ... y_2009.pdf

T1 is pretty mild stuff as race car builds go. Less exotica often means less stuff to go wrong. If I were in your position, I'd get on the phone with Phoenix (or whoever is building the top T1 cars these days) and get one of those.

While not the most interesting car on the planet, this is the easy button, and the right time of year to find one used. Like Jason, I too am a Corvette fan, having nearly bought one on a couple of occasions.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

You could always rent a ride in Clay et al's Bimmerworld ride that has won the past couple of 13 Hour enduros ...

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:26 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

You could always rent a ride in Clay et al's Bimmerworld ride that has won the past couple of 13 Hour enduros ...

I hate you right now.

The saying is "If you can't beat them, join them." But that would be quitting! And I'm no quitter! *sigh*

--Donnie

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:26 pm

E36 has an iron block. M3 E36 same block AFAIK. biggest problem is the famous money shift. but i know quite a few people that have done one and as far as i know none have quit driving their cars because of it.

the E46 M motor is way more a PITA than the E36 M motor. call Chip Stabler or Holland Hale at Atlantic Auto Exchange. these guys throw a little bit of money at their cars and have a great time.

I'm thinking an E36 M would afford you a longer / larger trailer Donnie. :lol:

more room for the trophies. :lol:

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:27 pm

steve remchak wrote:

my guess is Brian's motor has at least another 25 RWHP in it somewhere.

Probably. It is a 100% stock Euro 3.2L S50B32 Dual VANOS engine all the way down to the stock air box. He had new VANOS (Beisan) seals put in recently, so it might be running a bit stronger now. His dyno chart had a huge flat plateau at ~275whp right after he bought the engine from Clay a couple of years ago.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Donnie Barnes wrote:

Wes Eargle wrote:

You could always rent a ride in Clay et al's Bimmerworld ride that has won the past couple of 13 Hour enduros ...

I hate you right now.

The saying is "If you can't beat them, join them." But that would be quitting! And I'm no quitter! *sigh*

--Donnie

Would it help if I mentioned that they won overall last year with a tired engine and a quart of oil in the passenger's footwell with 7 PSI indicated?

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:43 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

Would it help if I mentioned that they won overall last year with a tired engine and a quart of oil in the passenger's footwell with 7 PSI indicated?

No, because I couldn't hate you any more than I already do. Pile on, be-otch!

--Donnie

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Donnie Barnes wrote:

No, because I couldn't hate you any more than I already do. Pile on, be-otch!

--Donnie

Get in line. :lol:

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Donnie Barnes wrote:

So with the E36, the question mark to me is the motor. I know it can be done, I just don't know how much it would cost. *shrug* Otherwise, the cars are pretty bullet-proof, too. I mean an E36 keeps winning this dumb thing and doing it with much slower times than what I'm after. So I'm probably being a bit too aggressive in what I want out of the car in terms of performance, but hey, better to be that direction (somewhat) than the other.

--Donnie

for reference - denis budniewski's e36 IP car did a 2:06 in the UTCC with james clay driving, dunno how much power he has though. the watts's e36 broke 2:00 but that's with a breathed on s54, widebody, lots of suspension work, and significant weight reduction. turning 2:06s for 13 hours in a e36 is going to require a significant effort.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:04 pm

Jason Tower wrote:

for reference - denis budniewski's e36 IP car did a 2:06 in the UTCC with james clay driving, dunno how much power he has though. the watts's e36 broke 2:00 but that's with a breathed on s54, widebody, lots of suspension work, and significant weight reduction. turning 2:06s for 13 hours in a e36 is going to require a significant effort.

I didn't say 2:06's for 13 hours. I said 2:10's.

What powers Denis' car? And are you talking about Brian Watts? Anyone have an email address for him?

--Donnie

Jason Tower · **Joined:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:31 pm **Posts:** 1173

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I didn't say 2:06's for 13 hours. I said 2:10's.

What powers Denis' car? And are you talking about Brian Watts? Anyone have an email address for him?
--Donnie

sorry, your original post said "2:05 or 2:06 flat out on VIR Full and needed to do it for, oh, 13 hours straight", that's what i was going from. 2:10s in an e36 is a lot more doable for sure.

i believe most e36 IP cars are powered by a s52 with cams and various bolt-ons, but i'm no expert on the rules or what people usually do. i want to say that 250-270 rwhp is typical but again don't quote me.

yes, bryan watts, i don't know him personally but he's a regular poster in the bf.c track section. i'm sure you can email or PM him from there.

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:30 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

What powers Denis' car?
--Donnie

Jason Tower wrote:

i believe most e36 IP cars are powered by a s52 with cams and various bolt-ons, but i'm no expert on the rules or what people usually do. i want to say that 250-270 rwhp is typical but again don't quote me.

Dennis' is (or was last year) running the S52 with a full OBD1 backdate, and a bunch of bolt-on parts. I'm thinking it would likely be easier to start with an S50-based chassis and drop an S52 in, but he started by converting his daily driver.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:35 pm

and while this may be off center just a bit. what i am gathering from reading posts by BMW CCA type racers in the LeMons forums is these guys aren't really pushing their cars over the edge in "Club" racing.

they spend big bucks and they finish ahead of the next guy. but i would suggest very few are running balls to the wall, winner take all. and it ain't because of the car. :wink:

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:45 am

Jason Tower wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I didn't say 2:06's for 13 hours. I said 2:10's.

What powers Denis' car? And are you talking about Brian Watts? Anyone have an email address for him?

sorry, your original post said "2:05 or 2:06 flat out on VIR Full and needed to do it for, oh, 13 hours straight", that's what i was going from. 2:10s in an e36 is a lot more doable for sure.

I did originally, but in a later response directly to a post you made, I threw the 2:10 out there as our regular lap target during the race. I should have been more clear early on with that point.

Quote:

i believe most e36 IP cars are powered by a s52 with cams and various bolt-ons, but i'm no expert on the rules or what people usually do. i want to say that 250-270 rwhp is typical but again don't quote me.

I have much to learn. I don't know these new S50 and S52 terms.

Quote:

yes, bryan watts, i don't know him personally but he's a regular poster in the bf.c track section. i'm sure you can email or PM him from there.

Yeah, I can track him down. We both used to race with Velocity (him in a Formula Mazda, me starting out in a Spec Miata).

--Donnie

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