Tow Rig Weight

Kevin Butler · **Posted:** Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:45 pm

I've been towing for about 3 years now. I've always speculated what my weight was. After refueling Sunday night on the way home from CMP, I got on the CAT scales.

My 2001 PSD Excursion and 24' enclosed trailer with a stock Miata weighed 15,700 lbs! And that was without me in it. Wow, I'm not surprised it's that much but I guess I had been in denial about it for a while..

Monday, I took the unpacked Excursion to a nearby CAT scale. After filling up I took another weigh. The loaded Excursion with a full tank of fuel weighed 7500 lbs - again, without yours truly in it. That makes my trailer with the stock Miata in it weigh 8200 lbs - about 80% of its 10000 lb capacity.

I had a conversation or two this past weekend that made me curious if I really needed a weighted tag. Yup, there's no escaping it. I also found out my annual cost of registration is going to go up $100 now that I know the truth about my towing weight.

Here's a link to the DMV rules for those of an inquiring nature.

http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/vehicle_servic ... Manual.pdf

I believe the relevant stuff begins in Section 2, Chapter 3, pages 2 & 5.

Enjoi

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:40 am

Yeah, and know that even driving an "SUV" you most assuredly CAN get pulled and weighed on the side of the road, and if you don't have sufficient weight on your registration for your rig the fines are HEAVY. Much heavier than SEVERAL years of the increased cost of registration.

I wonder now that the "DMV" and the HP are merged if one is any more likely to get scaled when stopped for a "normal" infraction by an HP officer. I haven't heard of anyone getting stopped for speeding (or other such moving violation) and subsequently weighed thanks to what appeared to be an inadequate weight declaration, but it could be more likely. *shrug* Used to be that pretty much none of the HP had scales and only the blue DMV guys did that sort of thing, but now all the DMV guys are HP officers.

Things get really weird when you drive a Class 8 semi that's re-titled as an RV as your tow rig. *sigh* But it's worth the hassle, particularly now that not-so-high mileage semi's can be had with full auto transmissions for WELL under the price for even nice USED F-350's or Excursions! I'm talking under $25k for a truck with a big sleeper, 450HP, 1500 ft-lbs, and more miles left in her than any of us will ever need.

--Donnie

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:33 am

I too need to get a weighted tag.

Kevin Harvey · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:34 am

Wow! That is much higher than I would have expected.

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:07 am

I'm having a bit of a hard time interpreting the document. Would anyone mind doing sort of a "Cliff's Notes" version?

BTW - when I owned Kevin's Excursion, which is a 2WD, I drove it across the scales at the Durham county dump, and indeed, it weighs about 7500lb. or so. 76xx something, actually - I wish I'd kept the printout. I knew it was heavy, but...damn. :shock:

Anyway, when I had it, I ran a weighted tag. Some people, on this forum in particular, told me that I was doing so unnecessarily. I chalked it up to "better safe than sorry." I was towing an open trailer with a tire rack and a Honda Challenge Integra GS-R. Probably about 4500lb for the trailer.

Small wonder I called the Excursion "Gigantor." :lol:

BretLuter · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:07 am

Karl Shultz wrote:

I'm having a bit of a hard time interpreting the document. Would anyone mind doing sort of a "Cliff's Notes" version?

BTW - when I owned Kevin's Excursion, which is a 2WD, I drove it across the scales at the Durham county dump, and indeed, it weighs about 7500lb. or so. 76xx something, actually - I wish I'd kept the printout. I knew it was heavy, but...damn. :shock:

Anyway, when I had it, I ran a weighted tag. Some people, on this forum in particular, told me that I was doing so unnecessarily. I chalked it up to "better safe than sorry." I was towing an open trailer with a tire rack and a Honda Challenge Integra GS-R. Probably about 4500lb for the trailer.

Small wonder I called the Excursion "Gigantor." :lol:

I didn't read the document, but IIRC, a regular passenger car tag is only legal on a vehicle up to a certain max weight- somewhere around 6-7k I think. This is GVW or Gross Vehicle Weight, which means the vehicle fully loaded with whatever you load it with, including trailer (if applicable) and cargo.

There was a big to-do about this a couple of years ago, folks with full size 1/2 ton pickups (F150, etc) and SUV's (Expeditions, Excursions, Suburbans, etc) were getting nailed for having passenger car tags, when most of these vehicles were over the weight limit even before you add any passengers or cargo. Those folks were (and are) supposed to get "weighted" tags. With these tags YOU can declare the max weight you want, but it's a good idea to know what your fully loaded rig can weigh, and maybe add a little cushion in there just in case.

For example, I have a 96 F350 crew cab diesel dually pickup with a solid deck 18' steel car trailer. I originally put 11k on my registration, but upped it to 14k when I realized that I was probably overweight with a heavy-ish car on the trailer and a bunch of crap in the bed of the truck.

I think if the DMV or SHP guy gave you a ticket for being overweight while driving a "regular" SUV around town they are just being a-holes. But if you get pulled with a car on or in a trailer and you look like you've done it before- you are fair game. I think as long as you are trying to comply with the law you should be OK. If you get a ticket for being overweight, chances are you can get it dismissed by showing up for court with the documentation proving that you fixed the registration to cover the additional weight.

If you're driving a commercial vehicle, they can and will write you up for anything and everything. It's getting kind of ridiculous, but I've seen some really crappy rigs out there so I hope they get them off the road.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

You know what -- at $100 more per year extra registration fees, I have been towing for 9 years, so even if I get a several-hundred-dollar ticket, I'm still ahead.

I think I'll keep my regular tag until I'm caught.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:57 am

FWIW, I *believe* there's no more "weighted" tag required. You can put any weight you need on a normal (or personalized or whatever) tag.

They *used* to make you get that special plate stamped "weighted", but I'm pretty sure they did away with that.

Now, that's irrelevant in so much as being legal and whatnot, but in this day of tighter govt budgets, it wouldn't surprise me to see them putting more scales in patrol cars and cracking down on this at normal stops. You're just as illegal with 4500 pounds of registration on a 7500 pound vehicle as you are if that vehicle happens to ALSO be towing. But I also understand the "might as well play fast and loose" angle until they do given how much more the registration can be if we're talking about something that "looks" like a normal passenger vehicle most of the time. I can't really take that chance with the semi, though!

--Donnie

BretLuter · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:08 pm

MikeWhitney wrote:

You know what -- at $100 more per year extra registration fees, I have been towing for 9 years, so even if I get a several-hundred-dollar ticket, I'm still ahead.

I think I'll keep my regular tag until I'm caught.

Not sure it's $100 extra per year, unless you have a really heavy tow rig.

IIRC, my 14k registration is ~$90 per year vs ~$50 for a passenger car tag.

What Donnie says is true, I know our CDL-required work truck has been stopped alot more this year than last. And while we have not gotten anything other than a "fix it" ticket, they do seem to be very nit-picky. They wrote us up because our fire extinguisher bracket latch had popped open while driving. The extinguisher was still in the bracket (it's mounted on the floor under the driver's seat) but he still wrote it up.

I've heard from some other branches of the company that I work for that they have been told by the DMV guys that they are getting picky because they need the ticket revenue.

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:32 pm

There's a black HiPo Tahoe that patrols 540 looking for weight infractions. There's not many weeks where I haven't seen the scales out on the shoulder of 540 near Glenwood.

edit to add.... usually he's got some sort of dump truck pulled over

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:47 pm

From the dmv link above:

6000 lb registration fee: $51.60
12000 lb registration fee: $123.00

As I recall, the penalties for being overweight are steep. I haven't found yet where that's listed, but I recall not wanting to take the chance.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Donnie Barnes wrote:

FWIW, I *believe* there's no more "weighted" tag required. You can put any weight you need on a normal (or personalized or whatever) tag.

They *used* to make you get that special plate stamped "weighted", but I'm pretty sure they did away with that.

--Donnie

I bought an 06 Silverado 1500 about a month or so back. I paid for weighted to about 12K I think. Like what Justin mentioned. The state sent me my plate and it says WEIGHTED on it.

Kevin Butler · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:35 pm

Dustin Fredrickson wrote:

From the dmv link above:

6000 lb registration fee: $51.60
12000 lb registration fee: $123.00

As I recall, the penalties for being overweight are steep. I haven't found yet where that's listed, but I recall not wanting to take the chance.

If your max loaded Truck/SUV weight is less than 6000 lbs, you can run up to 9000 lb gross tow rig weight - See page 2 of Sect 2, Chap 3.

13000 lbs is the marker pt. Registration is 133 dollah.

14000 lbs jumps up by $60 to $193. You have $13/$14 increments up to 17000 lbs.

At 18000 lbs you jump to $280. I guess I'll have to make sure I stay on a diet.

When I start towing the Spec E30, I'm pretty sure I'll go over 16000, so it looks like I need to make sure I stay under 17000 lbs.

Dustin Fredrickson · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:42 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

Donnie Barnes wrote:

FWIW, I *believe* there's no more "weighted" tag required. You can put any weight you need on a normal (or personalized or whatever) tag.

They *used* to make you get that special plate stamped "weighted", but I'm pretty sure they did away with that.

--Donnie

I bought an 06 Silverado 1500 about a month or so back. I paid for weighted to about 12K I think. Like what Justin mentioned. The state sent me my plate and it says WEIGHTED on it.

Graham, I think 12k is the "right" number for an open trailer and standard car. I've weighed my setup at the scrap yard scales, and I was around 7500 lbs for the same truck (mine's 2wd) and 16' steel trailer, completely unloaded and empty tank of gas. My BMW weighs in at 3115 with a half tank. Add 8 extra wheels, brake rotors, other spares and tools, and 12k is approached real quick. If I recall, I'm only showing 11k on my registration, but I'll bump it up to 12k next time I'm at DMV for the extra $10.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:09 pm

i believe the fine is $20 per 100 pounds over. at least i think that is what someone told me once. i do recall hearing it adds up quick.

i have a 18k tag and i have been known to exceed that when towing floor tile on my 14k rated trailer. my truck weighs in at 8800 pounds empty.

weighted tag is just another cost of doing business.

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