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The problem with finding a US driver for F1 is the requirement for a FIA Superlicense. Either having one or getting one by start of season in 2010 makes the list VERY small. An experienced IRL driver would qualify, but again the list of US drivers in IRL who want to race in F1 or more specifically race in F1 for a team that is going to be lucky to make the grid is next to zero if not zero. USF1 clearly understands this at this point so they are looking to sponsor US drivers as part of a driver development program.

For example Jonathan Summerton has been talked about as the US driver for USF1, but I think he drives in the Atlantic Series and the FIA is not going to give an Atlantic Series driver a Superlicense and turn them loose in an F1 car. Six time WRC champion Sebastien Loeb who clearly is gifted and also has wheel to wheel experience (2nd overall at LeMans in 2006) and has driven an F1 and GP2 car (testing) was recently denied a Superlicense and this kept him from doing a one off race for the Red Bull F1 team in 2009.

The real question is “Are they looking for drivers to bring sponsorship money”. At first USF1 was not going to do that, but it looks like with Jose Lopez, that he will be bringing money. There is also rumours that Jacques Villeneuve may be the other driver. He is making noise about how he is back on a heavy training program to get into shape. I don’t think he would do that unless he felt he had a chance.

I have been following USF1 pretty closely and the biggest problem right now is that many people think that their chance at making the grid is nearly zero. While the other new teams are busy either crash testing physical parts, there is a lot of evidence that USF1 is just now starting to construct parts. Also just last week, USF1 has started to recruit experienced F1 staff in Europe and based upon the job descriptions, it is clear they don’t have a large staff today. All of this points to them being behind where many people think they should be.

I continue to be hopeful and do think they will be on the grid, but if they do anything other than drive around in last place all year I will be surprised.

To the point of liking or disliking F1, we can all argue as to what series we each prefer. Yes, F1 has drama. It has enough drama for 10 racing series. But I will say that the racing has actually been good for the past few years. The quantity of passing is not like NASCAR, but the races are not always won in qualifying as in year past and it is not a parade. My personal theories as to why F1 is not big in US, has little to do with the lack (or perceived lack) of quality/fun/whatever in the series. F1 can work in the US, but it will also never (in my lifetime) be as big as stock car racing.

Oh, and Wes that is the correct address. And even back in September if you Googled that address it would show it was USF1. I don’t think they (USF1) have any control over what shows up in Google maps.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

4 time winner... That just might be more impressive than 7 time Shoe Maker champion.

F1 won't make it in this country. It has and continues to be nothing more than a show or expose. For the disgustingly rich special crowd in Europe. So they can all measure themselves. It isn't racing. It's a soap opera. Most of the the rules and the series was all built around Ferrari showcasing what they can build. The rules adapted to make sure they keep the upper hand. There are very few in this country who can even remotely relate to this crowd or even the drivers. Who are also mostly just another bunch of self indulgent snot noses. The last time F1 had any class was when Jimmy Clark, Graham Hill, and Jack Brabham were racing.

I watch it because the car technology is cool and the tracks are awesome. The qualifying is what it is all about. Most courses don't allow much passing.

I'd rather watch ALMS or even Rolex run those tracks. I'm all for bringing back Australian V8 Supercar and DTM on Speed. Much more interesting. The most boring racing in the world now appears to be IRL. What a waste of open wheel.

I grew up in a small New England town. Our racing entertainment was the local 1/4 mile oval. Watching local stock car racing. And the ever entertaining demolition and powder puff derby's.

I think I'll start watching more NASCAR. It's more entertaining.

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Graham, I agree with the comments about the “disgustingly rich special crowd”, etc. However, when the green flag drops, it IS racing. So I am not sure what you mean when you say it isn’t? All of the rest (i.e. drama and glitz) is just part of the show, or lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. F1 is Cristal and Caviar, while NASCAR is Bud Light and Cheeze whiz. Who is to say one is better than the other from a lifestyle perspective and does that lifestyle really have any impact on the quality of the racing? But even if you do buy the argument that it’s all just Eurotrash at their worst, then you should be a big supporter of USF1? They clearly don’t want to create a team in the classic European mold.

You also mention there is a lack of class in F1. It’s easy to cherry pick a few quality drivers from back in the day, and the sport has always has its share of “prima donna” drivers who whine and complain, back stab, etc, but they are not all like that. How Felipe Massa handled his loss of the championship in 2008 in Brazil, I consider that to be the definition of class. My point is that you can play the “they ain’t got no class” game with ANY professional racing series.

Everyone has their personal preferences. I love Sports and Prototype racing above everything else (such as ALMS). F1 is a close second. I went to the Petit LeMans this year and even with it being stopped early due to rain, I loved that entire weekend. Frankly I don’t understand NASCAR. Not trying to offend anyone, but I would rather watch grass grow than watch NASCAR on TV. Can you have too many lead changes in a race? I actually think you can. It’s like watching a cheap porno in which the “money shot” happens every five seconds. Eventually it just blends into the background and the thrill is gone. However, I have yet to attend a NASCAR race in person, so I am holding off final judgment.

I think Daytona Prototypes are ugly and low tech abominations and will only watch a DP race if there is nothing else on (Daytona 24 being a slight exception). I used to enjoy CART but that series is dead (thank you Tony George). IRL should float my boat, but it does nothing for me. I don’t even both to watch the Indy 500 anymore.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

I get people calling DP cars "ugly", but how much does that really have to do with anything? All formula cars look the same to me. Never saw one that looked "good", never saw one that looked "bad", either. *shrug*

But what I don't get is "low tech." How "low tech" can they be when a new one will set you back $400k from a low end builder and $800k from a high end one? Is it just because pushrod engined cars are allowed to compete with everything else?

Sure, a lot of the DP car is built to be "tough." That's mostly for cost reasons, but it also lets these guys get pretty racy without worrying about toasting a $500k carbon fiber tub just because they went four wheels off in the wrong place.

Here's how you make Grand Am better, IMHO: Add a higher end prototype car similar to ALMS stuff and let current DP cars and that faster car run together in one series. Split GT into ACTUAL production based cars as well as a class for tube-frame-but-look-production cars (and Porsche RSRs) and run that as another series. Then keep Koni like it is. So you have three series, each with two classes. (What this means to the 24 is unclear. Two 24's?)

That would kill ALMS (if done well), but if it all worked that would be fine with me. The US market can't support two "similar" series very well.


--Donnie

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Ferrari didn't do a very good job of fixing the rules this year. Qualifying is extremely important as it is on any road course. But I think the races have gotten better than years past when it was a Ferrari or Ferrari/McLaren show.

When's Chevy going to build their F1 car?

I think the GrandAm cars are ugly, and hate to support what is really a spec racer series to some extent. Yes it keep costs down and safety up but ick. The racing isn't bad though sort of. I like ALMS more the cars are cooler.

My favorite is still figure eight racing, trailer racing, and I used to like the European truck racing.

You forgot to tell the kids to get off your damn lawn old man

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Unfortunately, I think from a fan perspective looks matter. It may be shallow, but I just can’t fall in love with a series that features unnecessarily ugly cars. Ryan mentions figure eight and European truck racing. Those are ugly, but that is more like enjoying watching female mud wrestling. It is appealing, but in a slightly different way. Prototype cars can and should look good IMHO. Like you, I generally don’t find modern open wheel race car as being naturally attractive, but some are not too bad.

You want to see a sexy prototype? I found the Drayson Racing Lola Judd at the Petit LeMans to be simply stunning in person…



I think that when the DP car specs were set out that they missed out on creating more attractive cars. Regarding my low tech comments, I am not a fan of push-rod engines, but I can live with them. My real complaint is that while they are no doubt pushing the envelope based upon the DP specs, but they just have a 1970’s tech feel to them (tube frame, flat bottom, etc), but without the coolness of real 1970’s prototypes.

You mention ways to improve Grand Am racing, such as mixing more modern prototype cars in with the DP cars. I have heard rumors that Grand Am is considering this. To me that show the weakness of the DP cars as a spec. If I remember correctly you have done (still do?) some Grand Am GT racing? So I am assuming you fall more on the Grand Am side of the Grand Am vs. ALMS fence. No offense, but I am fully on the ALMS side. All racing series are struggling today due to loss of sponsorship dollars, but if anything I see Grand Am struggling much more than ALMS. And I see things in ALMS future that are more attractive to me than what Grand Am is offering. I do agree that there should not be two series. IMHO, the France family is subsidizing Grand Am to keep it running when it normally would die on its own. Grand Am’s deep pockets (not a better product) is the biggest obstacle to ALMS success. Killing off ALMS only leave the US with a prototype spec that is not used anywhere else in the world. Grand Am thinks that if ALMS was to go away they will then eventually pick up Sebring and that Europe will come around and join in on the DP fun. But that is not going to happen. If ALMS was to go away it would basically means the death of modern prototype racing in the US.

I would say the best thing for a DP team that is having money problems (and who isn’t) would be to race ALMS next year, but use the LMP Challenge car. It is basically a spec series (much like DP is nearly a spec series) in that everyone uses the same car (based off an Oreca LMP2 car). Everyone uses a GM LS3 engine and the result is a cost effective car that runs faster than a DP car but without the cost of a full on LMP2 or LMP1 car. It would be great for new teams stepping up to ALMS (but may not want to jump right into LMP2 or LMP1). It could also be great for driver development for new drivers who are moving from GT to prototype.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

Bastard !!!! I should just run STX next year and kick your ass for that remark sonny...

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http://www.greywinds.com

Actually, while I have done some Grand Am racing in the past (a few GS races), I agree that ALMS is the better series for the racer and the race fan. But as you point out, Grand Am has the deeper pockets. Their owners are finally starting to wake up and realize that NASCAR has hit a plateau and if they want to continue to grow it's going to have to be in some new direction. Enter Grand Am.

Thanks to the deeper pockets and the ability to actually market a product well (even if you don't care for the product, you have to admit they've marketed NASCAR very well), Grand Am will win if they decide to. The one hurdle they need to overcome is not letting the NASCAR mentality rule where they think fans will only support the top tier series and barely support the second one. Trucks might as well not exist as they've found out, but that's not because people won't follow more series. They will. And sportscar people know how to keep a track running all weekend long, whereas the NASCAR boys are happy with two three hour races, two qualifying sessions, and two "happy hours" at MOST on the same weekend at the same track.

Sure, I'd love to see ALMS "win" the battle. Would be hella cool. But they've not proven any ability to grow, only contract, for their peak. They don't have the deep pockets. And Grand Am, for all the shortcomings you've shown, still hasn't done badly. If they were to further invest in taking road racing in America to another level, then yeah, I become a bigger Grand Am fan than ALMS. But that's simply because I believe they have the ability to pull it off where I don't think ALMS (by itself) does.

Everyone is afraid to compete with NASCAR. Even the big pockets and big talk of Bruton Smith hasn't made it happen. Who better to do it than NASCAR itself?


--Donnie

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I agree. I think F1 cars look sexier and cooler than a DP. Honestly the DP body style does nothing for me. But calling it low tech because is has a pushrod engine is funny. These Porsche guys and the ricers get way too hung up on the pushrod thing. When the small block V8 was written off as pretty much done at 300hp. What happened. Oh GM went and made the LTx family the LS family and turned it up to 400hp, then 500hp. In a reliable street car. Building DPs with a reliable drive train. Bodies like Donnie mentions that are a bit more rugged. It allows someone other than a Factory Team to race. Racing should be more than just Factory Teams going at it.

And a top shelf built DP costing $800K just to show up at the track. Then add in a 2nd car. Spares, ongoing parts replacements. That is not chump change. They are not low tech cars. Just because it wasn't built by Ferrari and doesn't wind up to 20Krpms. BFD. Yeah they push the envelope. But we are back to only the most elitist and richest can run those.




I like this. I want to see a mix. Let's have the DP or LMP type cars run. Also let's have the GTs, Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari, Masserati, Aston Martin. Then something like the old TransAm class with Mustang, Camaro, Challenger. GT2 or GT3 where we have BMW M's, Pontiac GTO-R, Mercedes xxx, etc... Let's make it entertaining


Oh and Richard. GM chased everyone out of GT1 with their crappy American pushrod plastic car and had to go run GT2 and build a slower car. Cause all the Eurotrash ran home crying because they couldn't beat the real C6R... Low tech my butt... (just yanking your chain)....

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Thats OK Graham. I really can tell that you are a bit defensive about the pushrod dinosaur in the Corvette. But hey, if people want to tell me how good the pushrod engines are, just let them run the same displacement as everyone else. Then come talk to me. I like this chain yanking thing!

Seriously, while I do think that pushrod engines are dinosaurs, my objection to the DP cars is not the pushrod engines (re-read my post above). I even suggested that the LMP Challenge car with a GM pushrod V8 is a better car than the DP cars. You talk about $800K DP cars as if that is a good thing. Sounds like they are both expensive AND low tech. Not a great combination in my book. My understanding is that DP cars are not significantly cheaper than the off the shelf prototypes (such as a Lola)

I think that either next year or 2011 the LMP2 class is going to use stock based engines (basically the current GT2 engines). To me that should be a real challenge to DP as the engines will be not that different from the current DP cars but in the LMP2 chassis. This should greatly close any price gap on what it costs to run a prototype car vs a DP car.

To Donnie's point, I don't think you have many teams destroying their carbon tubs either. It does happen, but not very frequently. Acura destroyed one at Petit LeMans in practice.

It would be interesting to see the DP and LMP cars run together, but they would have to be in different classes. Or they would have to slow down the LMP cars. Doing that wouldn't make any sense as it would create a very US specific spec for the LMP cars. If you were a team, why would you spend the money for an LMP1 or LMP2 car and then hobble it to run against DP cars?

The C6R was a fine car in GT1, and I don't want to take anything away from it. But frankly I don't think Corvette scared everyone off so much as there was not many who wanted to play in GT1. It just never got to a critical mass to keep it alive. The GT2 version looks like it will be a success as well.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

oooo...oooo...can I play too.

How about keeping the engines the same Physical size. Kind pointless to say displacement is smaller when the engine itself is twice the size and weight.

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Marty Howard
2011 NASA SE Factory Five Challenge Champion
Track Events Logistics Coordinator - TZC/THSCC
2007 Factory Five Challenge Car.
http://www.mh-motorsports.com

Gee, you whine about Richard making fun of your old antiquated pushrod engines, then you go and make fun of the coolest sounding cars on the planet - Ferraris. Why can't we all just get along????

Hell, I don't care if it has pushrods, pullrods, OHV, OHC, 4 squirrels, or Flintstone Feet. If it looks cool, goes fast and the racing is good, its all good. All those engines sound good when rev'd (some to 19K, some to 7K) .

I like Graham's idea of bring em on for a Trans Am fest Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, Cudas (oops those haven't come back yet), AMX's (wait, that's gone too) Hyndai Genesis (Genesi?) for the ricers again. Keep them semi-stock and let them cheat.

I'd even watch NASCRAP again if they would go back to running production (STOCK) cars. Make them tube frames but they have to fit stock templates with very few changes (wheel flares). If Jeff Gordon is driving a Monte Carlo with FWD, then the car has to be FWD. If Carl Edwards is driving a hybrid Fusion then his car has to be a hybrid too. Now that would be win on Sunday, Sell on Monday.

Hrmmm smaller displacement or smaller engine? I know which one I'd pick for a race car.

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How did we get here in an F1 thread?

Is anybody else planning to attend the Daytona 24 Hrs? Jan 30-31. It is NOT too early to book your hotel rooms.

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Art McDonald
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Rodney is a waxer (but in a good way)