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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:30 am 
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Wes Eargle wrote:
The Beatles are a 40 odd year old boy band. :yawn:


that's just mean Wes. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:32 am 
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steve remchak wrote:
the recent election brought out of the woodwork all the damn heathens. those people that understood the white middle class wasn't really praying for them on Sunday. the have-nots one might say.


I disagree completely. I haven't seen any numbers (and probably wouldn't believe them anyway), but I don't think we had a huge extra have-not vote. I think the difference maker was more the younger folks just joining the middle class who decided to get out and vote for the first time for a rock star. Finally they had a non-fuddy-duddy who was TRYING to relate to them. Someone who could speak about "open source" and whose people get computers and how to use them. Finally someone who was somewhat "cool" and who seemed NOT like a "politician." He played basketball with the soon-to-be National Champions. He was willing to fill out brackets and be on ESPN!

Now those folks are learning. Learning that he very much is a politician, and a damned good one. He's still just as much "party first" as the last guy...hell, maybe more. They're learning that a president alone probably can't fix the kind of mega-problems we face and that is worrying them (and good damned thing, too!). They might even be starting to realize that a president AND congress can't fix these problems and that, gasp, WE have to help. Again, good damned thing. And that, to me, is why the discourse is growing. That's why we're having a productive discussion here. That's why it turned to "how would YOU spend the $4B?"

We can all do more. And it's gonna start with voting for people with better plans and the will to act on them, not just be politicians worried about the next election. But what I want to see, even from people like Steve, is an end to the "but what do I know, I'm just one guy and nobody is going to listen to me anyway." That leads to non-voting and non-caring when the time comes to get educated. The BARE MINIMUM every "American" needs to do is get educated and vote accordingly. It's time.


--Donnie

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:58 am 
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"but what do I know, I'm just one guy and nobody is going to listen to me anyway."

In defense of this statement, why would we NOT feel frustrated KNOWING that the blue collar's within this current structure do nothing but bail out the white collars.

I voted for hope and change, and am now at my wits end seeing how people get handouts who didn't/don't take responsibility for their investments.

I tire of the "get educated" and "get on board" attitude. If everyone took responsibility for their own lives, we wouldn't be in this mess. At what point do you become "filled up" with "education". Who's jargon do I digest??? Obama....who seems to be more and more Chicago Thugish, or Rush... who is just an angry white man???

At some point free thought HAS to be what educates each of us....

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:37 am 
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MikeWhitney wrote:
Nope, Ron Paul is on record as a Constitutionalist* and wants to continue to ram his Moral agenda down our throats at a Federal level also.

* The "Constitution" party may not be what you think. They are committed to economic liberty but have a strong Christian agenda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituti ... _States%29


I never really got the impression from anything I've heard from him nor from his books that he has a moral agenda, and I thought I looked pretty hard for it b/c nothing pisses me off moore than those who try to push a moral agenda through politics. I believe when he has identified himself as a constitutionalist it has been in the sense of supporting the constitution, but if I'm wrong please do correct me.

Chuck Baldwin was the constitution candidate. Ron Paul actually ran as Libertarian in 1988. Paul endorsed Baldwin, but also endorse McKinney and Nader just on the principle of being "anti McBama", small government candidates.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:17 am 
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Not spectacular just decent
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Location: Heading back to base for debriefing and cocktails.
What's the word I'm looking for? Ironic. That's it.

I'm actually fairly involved politically. I just choose to not post on the subject in internet forums. More often then not those "discussions" devolve into the intellectual equivalent of fourth grade food fights.

Or in Steve's case, beat poetry. :D

The other reason I don't post is that it gets too time consuming. I have sources that I trust (people smarter than me that are much deeper into this stuff), but that doesn't mean that everyone else trusts them. So I feel obligated to dig deeper. As opposed to this article which is reduced to little more than a fairly entertaining rant since he didn't bother to cite the University of Minnesota study or any of the other stuff on his numbers.

I'll be going back to my cave now to make some stuff so I can get paid, but I'll leave these two PDFs behind for people who really want to get into numbers.

National Health Expense Data
Case for Public Plan Choice in National Health Care

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:36 am 
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just to vent:

One of my wealthiest clients is an owner of a Chinese Rest., I am convinced she does not pay her fair share in taxes, everything is in cash owns several homes free and clear, more cars than mike whitney, enough expensive jewelry to make Sammie Davis turn over in his grave, does spend money wisely on excellent plastic surgery but that is a discussion for another forum.

Here is why I am pissed, she just traded her 16 year olds explorer as a cash for clunker on a new civic. I'm so happy that my tax dollars are helping her out.

I know it's all been said but when it comes home I really notice.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:08 am 
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BriceJohnson wrote:
MikeWhitney wrote:
Nope, Ron Paul is on record as a Constitutionalist* and wants to continue to ram his Moral agenda down our throats at a Federal level also.

* The "Constitution" party may not be what you think. They are committed to economic liberty but have a strong Christian agenda. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituti ... _States%29


I never really got the impression from anything I've heard from him nor from his books that he has a moral agenda, and I thought I looked pretty hard for it b/c nothing pisses me off moore than those who try to push a moral agenda through politics. I believe when he has identified himself as a constitutionalist it has been in the sense of supporting the constitution, but if I'm wrong please do correct me.



I'm no expert, but he seems to have kept his abortion agenda hidden while running under the libertarian party. How can he call himself a libertarian while at the same time be pushing for federal legislation? Leave it to the states.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?art ... n_rhetoric

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:04 pm 
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I have seen his abortion stance, he does state in the revolution that he is personally anti-abortion, but this mostly stems from his being a doctor I think. Personally, I've never been one who has based any of his votes on pro-life or pro-choice, as I see it as something that isn't really going to change.

Outside of abortion though, is there any other moral agenda that I don't know about?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:21 pm 
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clinehall wrote:
just to vent:

One of my wealthiest clients is an owner of a Chinese Rest., I am convinced she does not pay her fair share in taxes, everything is in cash owns several homes free and clear, more cars than mike whitney, enough expensive jewelry to make Sammie Davis turn over in his grave, does spend money wisely on excellent plastic surgery but that is a discussion for another forum.

Here is why I am pissed, she just traded her 16 year olds explorer as a cash for clunker on a new civic. I'm so happy that my tax dollars are helping her out.

I know it's all been said but when it comes home I really notice.


then start charging her more to make up for it. ;-)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:33 pm 
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I'll try to stay out of the pros of cons of the health care proposal. But for people that support it, how do you feel about the idea that 8-12yrs from now a republican government will have access to molest this program however they feel?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Jason Mauldin wrote:
I'll try to stay out of the pros of cons of the health care proposal. But for people that support it, how do you feel about the idea that 8-12yrs from now a republican government will have access to molest this program however they feel?


God I hope it doesn't take THAT long.

Wait, err, that's not what I mean. I mean...oh, nevermind.


--Donnie

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Jason Mauldin wrote:
I'll try to stay out of the pros of cons of the health care proposal. But for people that support it, how do you feel about the idea that 8-12yrs from now a republican government will have access to molest this program however they feel?

There was a guy on the radio a number of weeks back who basically said that he felt the Obama administration should not spend much if any time trying to make this a bipartisan solution and that letting it float around for general public debate does nothing to help push it forward. He should push something through (warts and all) as quickly as possible while he has the political capital to do so. Once it’s in place you then go about fixing the problems with it.

While I think everyone involved should do the best possible job they can with the first pass and don’t agree with the “shove it through” approach, I can see the validity of his point. That unless it ends up being a total fiasco once implemented that the general voting public will grow accustomed to the benefits and will not allow significant changes. So can a future administration make changes? Sure, but gut it or roll it back? I doubt that can happen.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:21 am 
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RobLupella wrote:
clinehall wrote:
just to vent:

One of my wealthiest clients is an owner of a Chinese Rest., I am convinced she does not pay her fair share in taxes, everything is in cash owns several homes free and clear, more cars than mike whitney, enough expensive jewelry to make Sammie Davis turn over in his grave, does spend money wisely on excellent plastic surgery but that is a discussion for another forum.

Here is why I am pissed, she just traded her 16 year olds explorer as a cash for clunker on a new civic. I'm so happy that my tax dollars are helping her out.

I know it's all been said but when it comes home I really notice.


then start charging her more to make up for it. ;-)



"So sorry Mr Cline, no more free Kung Po for you!!!!!!!!!!"


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:34 am 
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http://videos.streetfire.net/video/C4-V ... 702277.htm

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:17 am 
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That video makes baby Jesus cry. :(

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