THSCC Forums

Generate revenue. If they wanted to controll speed they'd do it with speed bumps.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Or government official GPS speed regulating limiters.

(yep... im reaching into the political pot with my big old wooden spoon to stirr)

I figure that if Virginia and New Jersey that both have EZ PASS systems and aren't speeder friendly haven't implemented timestamp-based speeding penalties, that there must be a reason for it. The same reason would preclude your scenario above. But if you want to borrow some tin foil to make a beanie, I've got plenty back at the house.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Regarding revenue generation and speeding tickets...cities and counties get virtually *no* money from issuing speeding tickets. N.C. state law directs all the fines to the state for disbursement to school systems. This is not the case in many other states. I'm actually glad that's the case in N.C. as making money is not an incentive for departments to give tickets. As a result, the police departments/officers I've worked with in N.C. are much more likley to give verbal warnings to drivers when it makes sense in their opinion, instead of ticketing. We're all aware of places throughout the country where police departments do write tickets to generate revenue.

A friend of mine was the city manager in Emporia, VA and told me 12 years ago that their PD stationed an officer on Hwy 58 pretty much 24/7 to do nothing but given tickets. They averaged $500,000 per year in revenue generated on that one stretch of road per year. That type of system creates so many negatives incentives that I'm really glad that it's not done here.

More of the Sheriff's departments along interstates are doing highway interdiction campaigns where it appears they are doing speed enforcement but they are really looking for vehicles running drugs. If a vehicle meets a profile *and* presents probable cause for a stop, then they pull the car over. This often results in a search for drugs. When agencies make big drug busts they get a portion of the proceeds returned to their agencies to fund various departmental needs. Departments can often get a lot of money doing this, but it's also very dangerous work.

Eric

So would you agree that using a Z06 isn't the optimum vehicle for this type of stuff Eric? I still agree the car should be auctioned off and the money used more wisely.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

So, that explains why I have more cops following me and pulling me over in my truck than on my sportbike or in my miata... a dark blue truck with privacy windows (read darly tinted ). I tend to do way more illegal things on the bike and car than I do in the truck (just speeding, none of that wheely crap).

Sell it, buy a mustang or cammero. The cammero would catch even MORE people wanting to fly past it than a Z06

Some would call that 'profiling' but as along as race isn't involved I guess they can get away with it.

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Vincent Keene
'06 Ford Mustang GT (track rat)
'15 Dodge Charger R/T (yeah, it's got a HEMI!)
'07 Ford Fusion SE (205,000 miles and counting)
'98 Chevy Z-24 (retired)
'93 Acura Integra (Team SWB 24HOL Car)

LOL yeah... the excuse for pulling me and searching for drugs while I was in NM on I-40 about 45 min from the AZ boarder was that I was swerving all over the place.

Sceen setup: Cop was in the median. I was on the "fast" lane. In the slow lane was a rig, followed by a few car's, by a few more rigs, by a few more car's.


If I was swerving as the cop described, then I would have totaled my truck after getting it stuck under one of those fancy trackor trailers.

The fines may find their way into the state school systems (how come we never see an accounting of this ) but the court costs which are more than the fine goes to the local court system. Highway Patrol get a portion of every ticket they write put into their retirement system, I don't buy the theory that its not fiancially motivated.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

Bernie, come look at the Town of Hillsborough budget or any city/county budget in the state and you won't find money from traffic tickets. I've worked 22 years in city management and with police officers and managers from other cities everyday. In that time no one has ever mentioned writing tickets to make money b/c it doesn't happen in North Carolina for cities and counties. I don't know how much the HP gets as I don't know much about state government. There are plenty of motivations that can spur tickets to be written, but raising revenue for operations would be a waste of time for cities and counties.

If you want to see an "accounting" of where it goes on the state level I'm sure you can find it as all those records have to be public information by law. You may be able to track it down on the intranet or personally go to the state budget office. Although, I'm not sure how many people would be that interested or motivated.

I'm just curious, I've never heard that a portion of each ticket the HP writes goes to their retirement system, where did you hear that? If that is indeed true, then that's obviously a major flaw in the state's system.

Eric

Vincent, I agree with you. It's likely a publicity stunt. Remember, sheriff's are elected officials, though I'm sure there have been plenty of municipal police departments that have done something similiar. Maybe it's a good PR deal for a while, but the cost of operating that car compared to about any other traditional police car would have to be a lot higher. More importantly, the chances of an officer wrecking the Z06 have to be exponentially higher than with a traditional police car, so IMHO this is a bad risk management move (i.e., like a hand grenade with the pin pulled, you know it's going to blow up, it's just a matter of when). This is a pretty big deal since many accidents involving officers result in not one, but three insurance claims:

1. The workers comp claim from the injury and lost time resulting from the accident.
2. The property damange claims from everything that was hit.
3. Liability from lawsuits/settlements from possible negligence or being at fault.

This leads to higher insurance rates, less money available for departments to operate, and can increase pressure to raise revenue through property tax increases.

Driving a police car while running emergency traffic, while dealing with all the other distractions that officers must handle in the cockpit, is an amazingly difficult thing to do. Personally, I could not do it safely so I have a huge amount of respect for the many officers that do it fairly well. With all that said, letting an officer drive a Z06 would seem to put them unnecessarily at risk and complicate an aleady difficult task.

Personally, as others have said, I'd sell the car and use the money for other things that officers need to do their jobs.

Just my 2 cents.

Eric

Eric, the info on the higway patrol came from Dick Gordon a retired HP officer and friend of mine, when I was charter fishing down in Morehead city. Dick passed away from cancer in 1991. He charter fished for about fifteen years, so maybe things have changed since the seventies. But it made alot of sense cause I've never talked a HP out of a ticket.
As far as the use of the vette goes I still don't see that a free Z06 is less cost effective than a PURCHASED Crown Vic, Tires may cost a few dollars more but how many tires can you buy for the cost of one crown vic??? Routine maintenance should be about the same. and when it comes time to sell it they will get a hell of a lot more money for the vette than a CV. Added to that when cruising the vette gets close to 30mpg, It sure seems to me to be a win win situation
Ask yourself a question, if you needed a car to drive eight hours a day for your work would you want a free corvette Z06 or a 28,000$ crown vic which gets 18 mpg I think the answer is more than obvious. And when you sell it in five years the vette will garner 20,000$ + the crown vic that you paid for will net about 5,000$. Who's spoofing who on this subject.

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2004 C5(415whp,390ft/lbs),
1997C5,1997Trans Am, 1986 C4,
1990 Miata, 1976 MGB,1997 Protege, 1989 MR2

I've never talked a HP out of a ticket, either. But I've now been let go with a warning or no ticket by about as many as have given me tickets. When younger and tried to talk them out of it? Never worked once. When a little older (and I mean 28+) I stopped trying. Simply went with the "yes sir", "no sir" polite and highly respectful routine and most of the time I get a warning now. Maybe it's been the phase of the moon or the tides or dumb luck, I don't know. But before the age of 28 I believe I got one warning and about 4 HP speeding tickets. After that age I've gotten one HP ticket and 4 releases, IIRC.

The "free" Z06 would have generated $50k in revenue. The normal patrol car, if they indeed needed one, would have cost about $25k. So there was still a $25k "cost" in using this car that way up front, at least. And Bernie, seriously, you just can't say "maintenance cost should be about the same." They put serious wear and tear on whatever car they drive, and the same stuff going wrong on a Z06 as the normal patrol car has GOT to cost more. Then there's the fact that the officer in THIS car would have to call in backup if an arrest had to be made, insurance has got to be higher on it, etc. It DOES cost more to operate. Is it not much and perhaps "worth it" for some sort of PR or marketing or whatever? That's the question, and most here seem to doubt it.

Oh, and they're spending money to send the guy and the car to driving schools. That's applaudable on one level, but yet another additional cost (including additional tires, which are probably about EIGHT TIMES the cost of tires for a normal patrol car). I don't see how you can rationally argue this one as some sort of "wash."


--Donnie

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My Blog

Interesting about the HP tickets going to retirement, that certainly isn't good for building public confidence if it's true. The standard state retirement system is funded through employee and employer contributions, so maybe the HP has some sort of supplemental package.

There have probably been lots of articles and papers written on what factors contribute to ticket writing. One of the biggest factors in giving tickets is the level of insulation from public opinion. Traditionally, most county sheriff's don't like their deputies giving lots of tickets for one simple reason: tickets piss off voters so it's a quick way to get unelected. Municipal officers have more layers between them and politics/public opinion, thus more tix are likely given in cities/town than county departments. If you're pissed about getting a ticket from an HP officer the liklihood that your complaint (justified or not) is going to have an effect on departmental policy for tickets is low since the bureaucracy of state government is so huge.

All the towns/cities that I've worked for (5), plus most that I am aware of, don't write tickets for anything less than 10 MPH b/c the DAs dont' want to clog up the courts with more cases than they already have. A *general* rule I've seen implemented by municipal departments is that anything below 10 you'll be left alone, 10 - 15 over is officer descretion (situation & driver's attitude dictate whether a ticket is given), 15+ and you're getting a ticket unless someone is giving birth or it's your lucky day. So, most of us that get tickets probably deserve them. Of course, the HP is stricter than what I described above.

Where you stand depends on where you sit, so there's not a right or wrong answer to the question of whether or not using the free Z06 is a good idea. So this is simply my view and what I would do today if I had the choice and I'm often wrong...it's not a question of 1 free Corvette v. paying for a Crown Vic. The Corvette may be free, but its' also an asset. $28K is way high for a Crown Vic. Most agencies are buying police cars off of state contract in the low 20s. We recently bought cars for under $20K. An agency could sell the Z06 and buy at least 2 brand new well equipped cars. That means getting 2 cars for 1 and saving some money in your budget while addressing a capital need. Plus, the agency doesn't carry all the extra liability of having a such a high performing car. Wake County Sheriff's Dept is so big that the money is probably not a big deal to them. My perspetive is from a small town with only 30 sworn officers, so figuring out how to squeeze enough savings to buy bullet proof vests, fund training, buy an extra car is a big deal to us - everything is relative.

I don't know what all this means...except if we get a Z06 from a seizure I'd like to take it for a quick test drive to make sure it's running on all 8 cylinders

Eric