THSCC Forums

Zombies will get here first.

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Not spectacular just decent.
I'm not sure what I'm driving.
Maybe an ITR in DS.
Or half-assed STX prepped 330.

Dude, Zomies are already here.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

They're leading this thing, in fact!

So those Obama "Hope" kind of things inspired me on something. I've seen them with his likeness along with "Hope", "Change", and "Progress" under them (individually). To me if you keep them in that order, it's kind of a logical progression (I don't think they were necessarily intended that way, but bear with me).

Now even if you didn't vote for Obama I think we all at least have "hope" that things will get better. So that's the first state. Then we have to affect change to make things better. If the change works, then we have progress (some would say if the changes don't work then we also have progress in a negative direction, but bear with me again).

So it's sort of an Obamameter. A simple pole of which state we're in. Obviously I think currently the bulk of those sampled would say Hope with a few saying Change and nutjobs only in the Progress end of things. But it would be fun to see how it ebbs and flows over time and major things happen. Maybe you need additional states on each end..."No Hope" to start with and "It can't get better than this" on the good end, I dunno. But I like this better than "approval ratings."


--Donnie

Maybe I've been living under a rock or something, but what in the heck are you talking about?

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Mike Whitney
whit32@gmail.com, 919-454-5445
V10, V8, V8t, I6, I6, V6, F4t, I4, I4, I4, I4, I2, 1, 1

I never started but when I was the age that most kids start I was watching my dad quit cold turkey from 2 cartons a week. There were no patches or pills back then. He did it with Snickers bars.

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George Bright Member # 141
One of the youngest of the old farts.
Yes I voted against you joining the club.

See, we elected this Obama guy to the White House...

I guess you're asking about the pictures? It's like these:



There's one with "Change" and another with "Progress" as the captions, too. There are probably others, but those are the ones that stick out to me.


--Donnie

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My Blog

And I can imagine a hypothetical Indian scholar saying that the United States will embrace its diversity and economic imbalance and come together in a stronger and purer democracy.

It all depends on your viewpoint. The Soviet Union broke apart because of vast differences between consituent entities, whereas the Indian democratic system was built to include even vaster differences.

Given that a war has already been fought once over whether to split or include, I would hope that we would follow the precedent of 140 years ago and go for acceptance and inclusion. Only without the violence this time.

I say that independent of my views on the tension and war between the USA and CSA. We'd be stupid to go back and repeat mistakes. I'm an optimist in this regard -- I personally believe that if it comes down to it, we'll have more in common with the Indian model than the former Soviet states model. The USA has dealt with vast economic and demographic differences in the past, and the only thing different now is better access to national media by the people who would rather split away from whatever minority they don't like this week. I'd like to think we're better than that these days.


As for topics like this, the one thing that distinguishes this thread in my mind is that despite the inflammatory title, discussion has been curteous, polite, and well informed. That's a debate, which can inform through opposing argument even if none of the people involved will ever change their position. That makes it not pointless, although whether it has a place in a car club forum is another subject entirely.

But the instant it turns personal, or arguments here move over into other threads, to me that's stepping out of bounds.

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Martyn Wheeler
AXing Kit's '05 Mazda 3, #29 HStock
(when The Gonzo Symphonic allows)

Progress can be a funny thing.

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Has no responsibility whatsoever.

Of course the problem with "hope and change" is that while they are nice to listen to but carry no message. "I hope things get better. I hope things change."

Personally I expect more from a leader, any leader. In my opinion anyone who says I hope for change is not a leader but someone waiting for something to happen. Again, I expect more (dare I say demand more) from a leader.

Jim I completely disagree that the US is going to fraction into several parts. When disaster strikes we pull together as a nation. I feel that is one characteristic that makes us the great nation we are. Certainly groups disagree but we put that aside until the disaster is handled. Then we sit back and start assigning blame. But at least, for that moment, we are a nation undivided.

Its unfortunate that it takes a disaster for us to pull together.

As for the economic situation, what exactly happened that, for instance, Lehman Brothers suddenly became disfunctional (if that's a word)? I submit absolutely nothing. Mark to market was the cause. Because of mark to market the assets they had on the books had to be devalued. But of course the value is only determined when you sell an asset so mark to market is just a stupid accounting "rule" that caused these problems. Same with the banks and other financial institutions. Isn't it odd that this "crisis" came on overnight?

Yes, I know, there were some underlying problems but not enough for ALL this turmoil.

As for the foreclosure "crisis", the last number I heard, and it may have ticked up a little, was that only 4% of mortgages were in foreclosure. Certainly a crisis if you are one of those 4% but I think having 96% of loans up to date is FAR from being a crisis.

Lets face it, MANY folks bought houses that should not have. Congress was on a push to expand the number of folks that did own homes and President Bush was happy to go with the flow. Lets see, the government (in this case Congress) got us into this mess and we are expecting them to get us out??

Yes, I'm sure hope and change will work just fine.

Uh, many republicans were after some oversight on what was going on with Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac for the last few years. This was started WAY further back than the Bush administration. I suggest reading up on it in more detail.


--Donnie

yes Clinton is generally given credit for trying to put more people into homes as owners. it boggles my mind that such a good idea was so mismanaged.

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BenchWarmer Motorsports

another one of those damn LeMons heads

just another Chump

we are an Autocross Club Dammit............

Found a website just for that Ryan.

Let's pick one out and start a collection.

I'm in for $20.

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

They are POLITICIANS, its not their job to do anything WELL, just to get re-elected.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

EDIT - I suck at posting the link.

Here tis!!!

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/

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Todd Breakey
STS 42 - 1992 Sunburst Miata
Dammit!
"You souldn't play leap frog with a porcupine. You might get hurt." - Eliza

Donny yes I 100% agree that there were Republicans (John McCain comes to mind) that warned of the forthcoming problems with Fannie and Freddie. I have no argument there. All I said was that Pres. Bush was happy to share the credit when things were going (seemingly) well. Rangle, Dodd, Frank were ALL pushing Fannie and Freddie to make what now are obviously bad loans.

As for the idea of home ownership being bad (or good) that's not the point at all. Of course home ownership is something fantastic....if you can afford it. Just by making loans easy to qualify for doesn't mean that you should own a home. The foolish no money down or 125% loans and such were just plain stupid and lead to the foreclosures we are now seeing.

As for helping those folks, a recent study showed that the folks that got "help" still couldn't make their loan payments even after the help! What's so wrong with letting companies fail or folks go into foreclosure? That IS the way its supposed to work right? You buy something you can't afford why should we expect the government to bail you out?? Hasn't before.

Now, before you label me as a heartless fool lets talk about the roll of charity. There are plenty of charities structured to help folks in need. The KEY about charity is its voluntary to contribute. No one is reaching in my pocket but me.

If we expect the government to bail us out when we make bad choices then we should be ready to give up most of our freedoms for this insurance. I for one am NOT ready to let the government intrude any further into my life then they already are.

I'll pay my taxes (unlike, it seems, many of the folks Pres. Obama has nominated for cabinet positions), vote and support those with policies I agree with. Let me keep as much of the money I earn as possible and let me decide where and when to spend it. Thank you very much.