Getting rid of "pay" TV

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:12 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I agree with Richard except what I would do is everything except aim the dish. I'd let them get up there and do that part. I hate aiming dishes now that you have that extra axis to mess with.

My first DTV dish was a Sony receiver AND dish. The LNB had an LED on it. You start moving the thing around in the sky and when it got any signal it would flash slowly. As you got it more locked in to the signal, the faster it flashed. Man, that was awesome. Then Channel Master started making all the dishes and that went away. Then the extra axis got added making it way tougher to aim them...Ah the good ole days...

--Donnie

Donnie, I must have started with DirecTV around the same time you did (late 1995 for me). I had one of those Sony receivers (Sony SAT-A1 was the hot receiver to have) and I remember the LNB with the LED. It really was helpful. But with only two axis, it was hard to mess up. I think I paid $700+ for that receiver when it came out! :shock:

A few months ago, I switched to the new MPEG4 HD DVR, so that required a totally new dish. As it turns out, I convinced them to let me do the install on the dish. The didn't want to due to the aiming complexity (it is much harder these days due to the multi-axis pointing). But he said if I couldn't aim it he would come back later that day to help. He was one of the best installers I have had over the years. Especially with his offer to come back later after he wasn't supposed to let me do it. Most installers would just see me as trouble to avoid. It took me awhile, but I was able to do it. I mostly just wanted to see if I could do it myself so if I ever ran into issues I could fix it myself. But I have never had problems with any once pointed and locked in. But I would agree that most people should let the installer do it as it will be much faster.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:23 pm

Chris Halweg wrote:

Also with Dish, you can use an ethernet connection to replace the phone line connection. If you don't have either connected, they will charge you a fee.

DirecTV used to require a phone line. I think they have dropped that requirement, but am not sure. Either way, I haven't had my equipment hooked up to a phone for years. Mostly because some of my older receivers don't work well over VOIP. I think the main reason for the phone requirement was that if you ordered pay-per-view via your remote, it had to "phone home" to report your order so that it would show up on your bill. The newer DVRs allow you pull some content off the internet, but I haven't messed with that yet. So they may phone home via broadband, but I don't know.

These days if I do pay-per-view (pretty much never), I would just order it online and they just send a signal via the sat to allow me to watch it. Same deal with scheduling recordings via computer.

In general, it looks like with respects to the basics that Dish and DirecTV have similar install issues/features. I think the big differences are in channels, package pricing and equipment.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:57 pm

Just an update...

For now, we still have cable, but are paying about $35/month less (for the same service).

I did the normal "call to cancel" route and after having about 10 different promotion codes fail the rep got something to work. It was pretty entertaining, he started with, "What if I can save you $15/month?" I said sure, but the code he used didn't work (the Earthlink internet was messing things up). Every time I got put on hold he would come back with a better price. I agreed to $15 (figuring I'd be canceling soon anyhow), yet he could only do $35...

He claims this is a "one time" deal that they use for customer retention. I bet the one time deal gets renewed, or better when I call to cancel again.

So, I have Digipic 1000, two HD DVR's and Earthlink access for $115 out the door (so yall have a price point). I also pay $20/mo for Vonage.

I'm still planning to drop cable soon. There is an off chance that I will add it back every December-April just for basketball.

Scott

PhilFausz · **Posted:** Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:45 pm

Your post was exactly what I was thinking of. So, we're going down the same road and sent our cable box this week. For now, I can connect my laptop to the TV and stream most of what we want.

My big concern/project is to figure out how to watch hockey (NHL, specificall, the Hurricanes). I found out that the Canadian's stream their teams games, so I know I can watch when they play the Hurricanes. You might (very probable) be able to find a foreign site to watch F1 on.

As for us, I'm finally going to move what equipment we have into a closet and go from there. TV isn't a driving force in our house, which is probalby why we still have a non-HD 27" TV!

I'll let you know if I find out anything you have not already listed.

Phil

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

MikeWhitney wrote:

Sally will probably hate you.

You could consider this:

- TWC Basic cable ($35/mo?), no STB, no DVR -- should get you the first 75 or so cable channels on the PC (incl Disney, etc)
- Basic cable should include all the local HD channels in clear QAM so you could avoid the antenna and get to minimize the number of tuners needed.
- HTPC w/ DVR of your choice -- MythTV on a low-power built PC would be my choice. Two TV tuners with ATSC / Clear QAM capability (like the Hauppauge HVR models)
- Spare HTPC slave on other TVs in the house, no tuners. Use the built-in TV tuner for live channel browsing, switch sources to HTPC for viewing recorded content via the network. Newer HDTVs have excellent tuners which can tune clear QAM signals off TWC -- I have a 50" plasma upsstairs w/ no STB which gets all local HD channels off the wire.

Now I know you're an Apple fan but a 3-year old $50 PC can get it done as a slave HTPC for viewing on other systems. Throw MythTV on there under linux and you'd be all set. I'd stick with a powerful machine if you plan to DVR HD content. It's a tossup whether to use a NAS or just build the main machine as an always-on

Thought I would update this thread. Scott, you got me thinking about reducing my cable bill, and I ended up taking a bit of my own advice. Here's what I have set up -- it's not ideal but it's been a good first-pass.

- Windows PC in a closet upstairs acting as a media server
- GBPVR (free) using a Hauppauge HVR-1600 hooked to TWC coax. Gets TWC 100 analog channels + about 35 SD and HD local feeds in clear QAM.
- Transcoding recordings automatically to lower resolution and Xvid, saves to NAS
- Modded 1st gen Xboxes ($40 each) running XBMC on each TV to watch recordings via ethernet from the NAS

So I have a whole-house PVR solution, with the TV's built-in tuners for TWC 100 channel (standard) + the 30 or so clear QAM local HD/SD. Lost the ability to pause/record live TV. PVR scheduling is through a web interface from any computer (even remotely/out of the house) which is REALLY nice. It's also cool to have access to all my recordings on the TV garage too. I'm quite impressed with GBPVR, it's very tweakable and the Guide is excellent (using a free guide scraper).

Downsides - XBMC on the xbox won't play native HD but does a fine job on HD transcoded (via ffmpeg) to 800x450, which actually still looks really good on a 720p TV via component cables. So this solution isn't for true videophiles.

Also nice that I have complete control over my recordings via any PC also. And everything is completely portable to HDD, DVD, iPod, etc. Next steps for me is to get commercial-skipping working (comskip.exe) which will remove commercials during transcoding. Also I need to get the automatic show renaming working to a format that XBMC can use to automatically scrape the show info (which is 100 times better than the show info on any DVR I have seen).

Long-term plan for me is to build silent HTPCs for each TV to replace the Xboxes to be able to (1) decode HD, and (2) run as a GBPVR front-end. Then the new PC based STBs could control the TV server. At that point I could ditch Time Warner and go to a cheaper Dish/Direct TV box (assuming they can do HD out to PC) which would live in the closet with the TV server and be controlled via an IR blaster. Looks like there are a few options for a HD compatible thin client also (Popcorn Hour) which can act as a GBPVR STB, but they are still pricey at $180.

The time is ripe for the household TV server + thin client "revolution". Cable prices are getting out of hand, and I believe TV viewing is on the decline.

Edit - Here's a screencap I just took on the Xbox showing how the recorded shows can be browsed in library mode. As long as the titles say something like "Heroes S03E13" the tv.com scraper pulls the description, cast info, airdate, etc etc.

Jason Mauldin · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:01 pm

Mike check out the prices to build a mini-itx HTPC now. It looks like you could get a complete HD capable unit for under $500.

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

Jason Mauldin wrote:

Mike check out the prices to build a mini-itx HTPC now. It looks like you could get a complete HD capable unit for under $500.

Yeah, not worth it to me (trying to save money after all) considering the Xboxes at 1/10th the price, and I'm happy with transcoded HD.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:08 pm

Mike-

Thanks for the update. Comments/questions:

1) Does Kendra bitch about it (even a little bit compared to the old way)?

2) Let me know what you come up with for DIY HTPC's. One big appeal about a Mac Mini (for me) is the small size and the quiet part. I'd love a build-it-myself option that is just as quiet (and ideally, as small).

3) As for recording from satellite, I think Haupage has a video in card that uses component inputs. That would cover everything up to 1080i. Even TWC doesn't dumb down the HD through component (yet).

Scott

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:15 pm

scottjohnson wrote:

2) Let me know what you come up with for DIY HTPC's. One big appeal about a Mac Mini (for me) is the small size and the quiet part. I'd love a build-it-myself option that is just as quiet (and ideally, as small).

Won't a hacked Apple TV work for this? No DVD player, obviously, but even smaller and definitely quiet. Fairly economical, too.

--Donnie

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

scottjohnson wrote:

1) Does Kendra bitch about it (even a little bit compared to the old way)?

We haven't officially transitioned yet since I'm still tweaking things. Probably going to go STB-free next week. One other drawback that she really hates is that we lose the guide. But I think she's willing to live without it. Some newer TV's I believe can pick up a guide OTA but ours can't.

scottjohnson wrote:

2) Let me know what you come up with for DIY HTPC's. One big appeal about a Mac Mini (for me) is the small size and the quiet part. I'd love a build-it-myself option that is just as quiet (and ideally, as small).

I think I'm going to go a year or so and see what new products the market comes up with for pairing with a tv server. With Roku, Boxee, Hulu, the aforementioned Popcorn Hour, etc, the market is going in a lot of directions right now. Seems like the world is just waiting for a killer product. Then again I've been thinking this for the 5 years since first trying the DSM-320.

scottjohnson wrote:

3) As for recording from satellite, I think Haupage has a video in card that uses component inputs. That would cover everything up to 1080i. Even TWC doesn't dumb down the HD through component (yet).

Good to know, bad that I'd need to buy more hardware!

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:26 pm

Donnie Barnes wrote:

scottjohnson wrote:

2) Let me know what you come up with for DIY HTPC's. One big appeal about a Mac Mini (for me) is the small size and the quiet part. I'd love a build-it-myself option that is just as quiet (and ideally, as small).

Won't a hacked Apple TV work for this? No DVD player, obviously, but even smaller and definitely quiet. Fairly economical, too.

--Donnie

Not enough CPU speed to do it effectively. 1080p is out, and if the software isn't written to specifically offload H264 decoding to the video card it's tough going (Hulu via the Apple TV is hard to watch for me, but is butter smooth on my laptop).

I don't know if installing a full version of OS X on the Apple TV would make things work any better than a hacked AppleTV running the ATV version of OSX.

Here are the AppleTV specs:
Processor Intel 1.0 GHz "Crofton" Processor (Pentium-M)
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 (64 MB VRAM)
Memory 256 MB of 400 MHz DDR2 SDRAM

Not exactly a speed demon for real computing needs. It benchmarks at about 1/2 the speed of the Mac Mini. I'd plan to use my HTPC for video encoding (to distribute to the AppleTV in the other room), so I need more CPU power anyhow (though a USB hardware encoder would take care of that issue). The hacked nature of the AppleTV also makes it less appealing. I need my crap to work, I don't have the free time for lots of troubleshooting.

Scott

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:51 pm

So, continuing to recording and viewing options...

I've about decided that the HDHomerun is the tuner that I want to use. Mostly because it is a dual tuner, but it also has an added bonus of being able to serve live TV to any computer on my network, not just the HTPC.

It looks like I have 3 choices of DVR software to choose from.

MythTV (free, but non-trivial to install)
SageTV ($80)
EyeTV ($80)

I like the price of Myth, but like the *ease* of the commercial solutions. It looks like SageTV can talk to iTunes (a good ting since I want to use the AppleTV as a media extender). EyeTV can also do iTunes. Both appear to support output to H264 file format as well (a bonus - the AppleTV only does H264 natively). Myth does have a plugin to support h264, but will it work on the Mac?

I think I can get demo versions of both EyeTV and SageTV.

Next up is rewiring the house for the antenna. I could just hook it up to the existing cable TV, but I want the option for OTA *and* cable, so each wall will get a dual jack. This will allow me to beta test without pissing Sally off too much.

It looks like I might get a loaner "HTPC" to try things out. Unfortunately for me, it will spoil me because it's a MacPro... wayyyyy overkill.

Scott

MikeWhitney · **Joined:** Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:15 pm **Posts:** 4724

scottjohnson wrote:

So, continuing to recording and viewing options...

I've about decided that the HDHomerun is the tuner that I want to use. Mostly because it is a dual tuner, but it also has an added bonus of being able to serve live TV to any computer on my network, not just the HTPC.

It looks like I have 3 choices of DVR software to choose from.

MythTV (free, but non-trivial to install)
SageTV ($80)
EyeTV ($80)

I like the price of Myth, but like the *ease* of the commercial solutions. It looks like SageTV can talk to iTunes (a good ting since I want to use the AppleTV as a media extender). EyeTV can also do iTunes. Both appear to support output to H264 file format as well (a bonus - the AppleTV only does H264 natively). Myth does have a plugin to support h264, but will it work on the Mac?

I think I can get demo versions of both EyeTV and SageTV.

Next up is rewiring the house for the antenna. I could just hook it up to the existing cable TV, but I want the option for OTA *and* cable, so each wall will get a dual jack. This will allow me to beta test without pissing Sally off too much.

It looks like I might get a loaner "HTPC" to try things out. Unfortunately for me, it will spoil me because it's a MacPro... wayyyyy overkill.

Scott

2 quick comments --

Are you still sticking with Mac/Linux only? I have installed and tested Windows MCE, Sage, Beyond TV, Media Portal, and GBPVR, and I am sticking with GBPVR. It's windows only. Sage and Beyond are nice but the widespread user community for GBPVR and the price won me over. I don't think you will regret going with Sage though. I just couldn't bring my wallet out for it...

Re the HDHR -- I have one that I'm not using that I'd be happy to loan to you. I'd probably be willing to sell it. I had to replace my analog card (it died) and put the HVR-1600 in which does QAM just fine, so the HDHR has been gathering dust. I did have it working for some time with XP MCE after lots of tweaking. Let me know if you want to try or buy it.

Scott Johnson · **Posted:** Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:59 am

Mike,

You have PM.

I might consider a windows solution because of cost/performance. I can always run windows in a virtual environment if I still want all of the Mac features.

I could see the irony, build a windows machine. Turn it into a Hackintosh then run Vista in a virtual environment...

Scott

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:51 pm

Scott, the AppleTV can do HD content, but only if you hack it to run Linux (thanks to OSX not fully supporting the Nvidia graphics):

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2JV ... =firefox-a

Also, the HDHomeRun box looks like it might be kind of cool for those wanting to go "free only" yet still get live HD off-air content and DVR type funcationality with a computer.

And for anyone who does a lot of their own video encoding, this little gem seems worth the $99.

I have the Turbo264 on order because I do a lot of video work on my Mac. I'm considering the HDHomeRun box if I can actually make an AppleTV get content from it in HD reasonably. Heck, I may not care about true HD and just run Boxee alongside the original firmware on it. *shrug*

--Donnie

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