This must be serious - more cancellations

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

First Honda pulled out of F1, then Audi from ALMS. Yesterday I read that Subaru is quitting WRC http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a ... /812169995
Now I read that Honda is cancelling the next generation NSX. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081217/FREE/812179996

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

This is only the beginning. The Nascar boys will be holding a bake sale and turn it into a spec Toyota series...

It's not only the American Big 3 that are taking a beating. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Mercedes are loosing sales too.

Mercedes recently offered a buyout to its entire workforce in Alabama, and Hyundai has never gotten its Alabama factory up to full capacity. Toyota will not use its upcoming Mississippi factory to build its Highlander SUV, and Nissan is converting its factory in that state to build commercial vehicles. Toyota has been forced to shut its Texas truck plant because of scanty orders for the new Tundra, and so on. That is just a sample.

Now the Chinese might be running their own spec racers series real soon. Should be funny to watch the cars fall apart during the race. Might look like demolition derby... ;-)

RobLupella · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:26 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

This is only the beginning. The Nascar boys will be holding a bake sale and turn it into a spec Toyota series...

It's not only the American Big 3 that are taking a beating. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, Mercedes are loosing sales too.

Mercedes recently offered a buyout to its entire workforce in Alabama, and Hyundai has never gotten its Alabama factory up to full capacity. Toyota will not use its upcoming Mississippi factory to build its Highlander SUV, and Nissan is converting its factory in that state to build commercial vehicles. Toyota has been forced to shut its Texas truck plant because of scanty orders for the new Tundra, and so on. That is just a sample.

Now the Chinese might be running their own spec racers series real soon. Should be funny to watch the cars fall apart during the race. Might look like demolition derby... ;-)

It is worse, the Mississippi factory was actually supposed to build Prius's (Priusi? Priiii?). I just can't drive or root for a car named: Geely, JAC, Great Wall Hover, Lifan, Chery, or Brilliance :thumbsdown:

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:31 pm

Suzuki also pulled out of WRC the day before Subaru I think.

I am not suprised about the Acura NSX. It seems like Honda couldn't decided what to do with the new car (mid engine vs., front engine, V6 vs. V8 vs V10, hybrid or not, etc.). I will also say I think it was the right thing to do. Focus on core business and then once that is back in order maybe consider a new NSX. I personally would like to see another mid-engine lightweight like the original.

Matthew Fortner · **Joined:** Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:21 am **Posts:** 384

I never had any doubts how serious it is.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:04 am

do i need to start digging a bomb shelter or is it time to move to Oklahoma, California? so our economy is going to come to a screeching halt? North Raleigh is likely to starve to death then. once they run out of petrol, they will only forage as far as their blackberrys advise them. the horror. :twisted:

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

RobLupella wrote:

I just can't drive or root for a car named: Geely, JAC, Great Wall Hover, Lifan, Chery, or Brilliance :thumbsdown:

You sure? How about a 2010 Chery Camaro SS?

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:52 am

Honda execs have said the company is now in a state of crisis. coming from them, that's very bad.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:49 pm

Marty Howard wrote:

Honda execs have said the company is now in a state of crisis. coming from them, that's very bad.

I am curious as to where you heard that. I actually can't imagine any company executive for a publicly traded company saying something like that even if it was true.

All auto sellers in the US are dealing with very low demand. For non-US manufactures, the weak dollar is making things even worse. I think that Honda might actually be ahead of the game right now and doing things that the big three should already be doing and may end up doing in the very near future.

Honda is cutting back on a number of things. They have dropped out of F1, they have cut the NSX, they are delaying some new models, delaying the open of some new plants, they are delaying the addition of the Acura brand in Japan, they are cutting executive salaries. I generally get the feeling the big three are paralyzed with indecision as to what to do. And that this status-quo as created by the big three causes people to be shocked when someone like Honda acts decisively and quickly.

Maybe it's a crisis, maybe they are just smart. Maybe it's both.

Donnie Barnes · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:06 pm

There's an article in the latest Road & Track talking about the tuner market being crap, too, thanks to much less JAPANESE demand. GReddy's parent, Trust, filed the Japanese equiv of Chapter 11 recently. They blame lack of demand for the "typical" tuner stuff on older cars as well as the inability to do as much tuner stuff to newer cars thanks to how complex they are.

The big tagline on the story was how Toyota hasn't built a proper sportscar since the MR-2 Spyder simply because there's been no Japanese demand for that kind of car, which was the start of the demise of tuner demand. But companies like HKS say there's still plenty of market hopping up the things people *are* driving, including even minivans and wagons.

So there's clearly still an aftermarket, but it's not as large as it was and a lot of mediocre companies are getting weeded out.

Obviously this isn't as significant as large car manufacturers having trouble, but it seemed interesting to me. What I'll also note is we've simply been riding a huge "good economy" car wave. Cars became more and more important to people while the economy was booming, and doing something to separate yourself there was a thing people LIKED to do. So staying with newer cars and buying junk to make them a little different was fun. Then things got serious and people had to buckle down. Guess what? Everyone builds a fairly quality car and most people have one or two or three. So when it came time to make decisions on what to do with money, new cars and blingy wheels aren't in the picture in a BIG way.

A friend of mine works for a large parts distributor in Charlotte. Their business is booming. Why? Obvious...people are fixing little things that would have previously caused them to just go out and get a new car instead. Things like CV joints and such...previously, those things start making noise and you are like "uh-oh, I don't know what that is, but it might be serious and I been wanting that new blah blah blah anyway." So you trade it in and the dealer takes care of the new CV joints. Now, instead, people are getting the good local independent shops to fix that, and that's who buys parts from my friend's company.

So while I think this car thing is VERY serious for car companies, I don't necessarily think it's a sign that the OVERALL economy is quite as bad as it might look. I think the auto industry was ripe for a major correction, just like housing was. Yes, much of the housing thing was a huge problem with how financing was done, but I also think we just had too much housing being built out there and the two combined very badly.

--Donnie

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Donnie Barnes wrote:

A friend of mine works for a large parts distributor in Charlotte. Their business is booming. Why? Obvious...people are fixing little things that would have previously caused them to just go out and get a new car instead.

Yep the parts distributors are happy. My SIL is the service manager at an independent shop. They are seeing the same thing. People are coming in and getting things fixed that would normally send them off looking to trade cars. His business has increased about 50%. So his orders for parts are way up.

Donnie Barnes wrote:

I think the auto industry was ripe for a major correction, just like housing was. Yes, much of the housing thing was a huge problem with how financing was done, but I also think we just had too much housing being built out there and the two combined very badly.

Agreed. The finance sector is a big issue. The developers refused to slow down and many are now caught sitting on properties. With not much lender support to even buy one. The market is also getting flooded with used houses. We are now seeing the baby boomers wanting out of those big houses to down size.

It's now a good buyers market for houses and will get better for buyers for a while. The interests rates look pretty damned good for refinancing now too.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:25 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

It's now a good buyers market for houses and will get better for buyers for a while. The interests rates look pretty damned good for refinancing now too.

unless one is self-employed. stated loans are at 14% interest these days. :eek:

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:30 pm

Well GM is doing 1 thing, having a fire sale on collector cars

jalopnik wrote:

GM To Auction Near-Classics From Corporate Museum
By Wes Siler, 11:00 AM on Thu Dec 18 2008, 6,230 views
Cash-starved GM's set to auction many recent and slightly less-important vehicles from its Heritage museum Collection at the upcoming Barrett-Jackson auction. Surprisingly full yet not-quite finished list below.

Basically, GM's auctioning off anything they can semi-easily buy another one of when (hopefully) times get better. Smarter move than auctioning off the rest of the more-priceless classics they've got in their Warren-based Heritage Center, like the dozens of completely irreplaceable and one-off concept cars. Of course, they could probably get more for those. Maybe they're next if times get even more tight.

While the list appears heavily stacked towards the 1990s and 2000s, that doesn’t mean there aren’t older vehicles on it. Check out the 1904 Oldsmobile Touring Runabout for an example. Us? We’re hoping the Gawker Non-Denominational Winter Holiday Bonus is big enough for one of the 1989 Corvette ZR-1s.

Still, we're hearing the final list of vehicles for sale is not-yet-complete. Maybe some of the more precious will go live to buy.

The Barrett-Jackson auction runs from January 13-19, 2009 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Break out the piggy banks.

List of Cars
1955 Buick Century
Bolero
2001 Blackhawk
G6 Rolex Pace
2007 Corvette Indy Pace/copper
2008 Corvette Indy Pace/black
1918 Cadillac
1995 Riveria Convertible
1993 Allante Pace car
1996 Presidential Limo
1998 Popemobile
1999 Eldorod
Indy Pennzoil IRL #4 (yellow)
Indy Pennzoil Panther Racing (yellow)
2003 EXT - M
2004 CTS Super V
2004 SRX Hot Wheels
2004 SRX SEMA
2005 STS MCE Integration
2006 DTS Appearance Pkg
2007 Escalade Limo
2007 Escalade SEMA
2008 CTS Sport
LMP #8
1925 Chevrolet House Car (Blue/Black)
1948 Chevy I-5 Vortech
1960 Impala
1972 Impala
2004 M/C Rock&Roll Pace (blue/yellow)
1987 Chevrolet Sprint Turbo Convertible
1989 Corvette DR-1
1989 Corvette Snake Skinner
1989 Corvette Splash
1989 Corvette ZR-1
1989 Corvette ZR-1 (Dark Red)
1989 Corvette ZR-2 Big Doggie
1989 Tracker Boom Box
1989 Zonker
1990 Corvette Right Hand Steer
1990 Corvette ZR-1 Active
1991 Caprice Classic
1991 Corvette Convertible
1991 Syclone PPG Pace
1991 Tracker Dirt
1992 Corvette ZR-1 First Built (Red)
1992 Impala SS 510
1993 Camaro ZL-1 "572"
1993 Corvette LT-1 Spyder
1993 Typhoon
1994 Corvette (Teal)
1994 Impala SS 6 Speed
1994 Impala Wagon
1994 Tracker Kalahari
1995 Monte Carlo Led Sled
1995 Monte Carlo Pro Street
1996 Camaro Brickyard Pace
1997 Corvette Alpha Build
1997 Corvette Beta Build
1997 Corvette Tiger Shark
2005 M/C Rock&Roll Pace (red)
1997 Monte Carlo Intimidator
1998 Camaro Drag
1998 Corvette First Built
1998 Corvette X-plorers
1999 Corvette C5R Show Car
1999 Corvette Shark
1999 Silverado Tonka
2000 Corvette Z06 Race
2000 Monte Carlo Brickyard #3
2000 Tahoe K5
2001 Impala Low Rider
2001 Monte Carlo Drag
Silverado #17 GMAC Racetruck
2001 Silverado Intimidator SS (Black)
2006 Silverado Craftsman Pace Flex Fuel #2
2002 Camaro Police
2002 Cavalier 425 A/FX Drag
2002 Monte Carlo Looney Tunes Pace
2002 S-10 Little Red
2003 Aveo Xtreme
2003 Corvette Lemans Pace #3
2003 Monte Carlo Rock & Roll Race
2004 Aveo X-treme
2004 Colorado SS Dark Cherry
2004 Colorado Xtreme
2004 Colorado Z-71 Vision
2004 Corvette Indy Pace
2004 Impala SS Project Vehicle
2004 Malibu Maxx SS
2004 Malibu Xtreme 2004
2004 Monte Carlo Dale Earnhardt Jr.
2004 Monte Carlo Tony Stewart
2004 Silverado Speedway
Solstice "Jazz" Transformer Movie Vehicle
1969 Reggie Jackson Camaro (red)
1990 Beretta Indy Pace
2004 Escalade Pinnacle (black)
Holden Race Car #22 (red)
2000 STS Saftey
2007 Yukon "CSI Vegas" (used in filming of show)
2003 Rendezvous CXL
1998 Rivera (teal)
2005 Colorado CC Z71
2005 Corvette Atlantic
2005 Corvette Pacific
2005 Equinox Xtreme
2004 Suburban Quadsteer
2006 HHR Official Tailgate Crew
2006 HHR Open Air
2006 HHR Panel
2006 HHR Panel Tuner
2006 HHR Xplorer Scout
2006 HHR Yearone
1995 Aurora (red)
2007 Avalanche Z-71 Plus
2007 Corvette Z06 First Built (Red)
2007 HHR SS Panel Motor City (Flat Gray)
2007 Silverado "Big Red"
2007 Silverado CC Rally Sport
2007 Silverado Country Music
2007 Silverado E85 Handy Man
1985 Calais "MSU"
2007 Silverado OCC
2007 Silverado Roadside
2007 SilveradoZ71 Orange
2007 Suburban HD Diesel
2007 Suburban Major League Baseball (Blue)
2007 Tahoe Foose
2007 Tahoe US Ski Team
Camaro Trans Am 2 seater
C/K 1500 Supertruck Chevy 2 Seat
Camaro GTZ
Camaro LT5
Corvette C5 Display Chassis
Corvette Purple Smash
Corvette Racing Boat
Corvette Trailer
Corvette ZR1 Rolling Chassis
HHR Floral
Holden Race Car (Red)
Kappa Chassis
S-10 Drag
S-10 Off Road Truck
S-10 Race Truck (Red)
S-10 Stadium Truck
2003 Centieme Concept
1916 GMC Stake Truck
1917 GMC Trailer
1948 GMC Firetruck
1978 GMC Suburban (Brown/Cream)
2003 Rollback
2004 Canyon Kayak
2004 Envoy Race Truck
2004 Envoy Water Sports
2007 Sierra All Terrain Crew
2007 Sierra HD Denali
Caprice "Fire & Rescue"
2007 Sierra Texas Edition
2007 Yukon Denali Jay-Z (Blue)
2007 Yukon XL Big Max
2007 Yukon All Terrain
2003 Hummer Spring Special
2005 Hummer Dirt Sport
2005 Hummer H2 Slant Back
2006 H3 street
2006 HHR Spring Special (Cappucino Frost)
2007 H2 Safari
2008 H3R SEMA
1994 Corvette HO
Corvette ZR 1 Snake Skinner
1904 Olds Touring Runabout
1923 Olds
1931 Olds Chassis
1940 Olds Blue
1949 Olds (Green)
1954 Olds Ninety Eight
1960 Olds 88 (White)
1970 Cutlass SX
1970 Olds 442 W30
1977 Olds Delta 88 Indy Pace
1995 Cutlass Darth Vadar
1995 Cutlass Mobil Net Race
1998 Intrigue 1998 (Blue)
1999 Intrigue 442
1999 Silhouette OSV #2
2001 Bravada Indy Pace
2002 Intrigue Last 2002
Aurora Exxon Race GTS (Gold/White)
Aurora IRL Race Car Cut-Away #5
Aurora IRL Race Car Cut-Away #5
1985 Peugeot 205 Turbo (Gray)
1985 Peugeot 205 Turbo Active (Gray)
1926 Pontiac
1926 Pontiac (Gray/Black)
1968 Pontiac Cataline (White)
1969 Pontiac GTO (Green)
1969 Pontiac GTO Judge (Orange/Yellow)
1980 Pontiac Grand Am Pickup
1994 Firebird Lingenfelter 383
1999 Grand Am SCT
2003 Sunfire X-plores (Yellow)
2006 Solstice DTP (Orange)
1967 GTO XXX Hardtop
1984 Fiero GT 2+2
1986 Firebird Trans Am Kamback
1987 Fiero GT Convertible
1991 Firebird Trans Am Twin Turbo
1993 Firebird IMSA Race car
1994 Firebird Firmula V8
1994 Firebird Trans Am 25th Ann.
1998 Firebird Trans Am Gold Rush
1998 Firebird Trans Am X-plorers
1998 Grand Prix M&M Pace
2000 Bonneville Salt Flats
2000 Firebird Rytek Project
2000 Firebird Trans Am Darth Vader
CTS-VR Race Replica (black)
2001 Aztek First Built (Black)
2001 Aztek Pace #1 (Red)
2001 Aztek SRV
2002 Firebird Trans Am Daytona Pace #2
2003 Grand AM Autocross
2003 Vibe Autocross Sema
2003 Vibe FX
2004 Grand Prix GXP SEMA
2004 GTO 1st built
2005 Firedbird Trans Am Collectors Ed.
2005 GTO SEMA
2006 Solstice Red Bull Drifter
2006 Solstice Weekend Racer
Fiero Goodwrench Race
Grand Am #85 race car
Grand Prix (show car)
GTO Drag Performance Parts
Firebird Mobil Race Car
1991 Saturn 4 Door 1991 (White)
1995 Saturn 1 Millionth
1999 Saturn 2 Millionth
2004 Ion Red Line
2004 Ion Red Line
2004 Ion Red Line
2004 Saturn Vue Spring Special
2004 Vue Red Line Street Play
Saturn Lola Race Car
1999 Grand Prix GT (red)
Regal Cielo Open Air
2001 Regal GNX
2002 Rendezvous Inca Trail (grey)
2002 Rendezvous Tour Edition SC
GTP Ultrlite (teal)
900 Pikes Peak
Malibu Friday Night Cruiser

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

Paging Karl Shultz, your new tow vehicle is ready:

1978 GMC Suburban (Brown/Cream)

BTW - they just cancelled the Detroit Grand Prix: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20081218/FREE/812189976

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:04 am

I am going to save up for the 2001 Aztec Pace Car.

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