"The Vacant Lot" : a proposal letter

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:17 pm

just finished swimming from points south, and damn my arms are tired. almost thought the raft might beach itself in Vidalia.

reading the posts this evening from the prior week, i am overcome with so many different emotions. a page full of emoticons would never fully describe some of the statements i have avoided placing in print. a point made by Mr. Casto however got me to thinking.

with this odd tweak of my brain in mind i am proposing we add a forum to our already bountiful selection. we could call it the vacant lot.

("the vacant lot" as in an autocross before everyone shows up.)

for the most part this club is made up of individuals that bring a ton of energy to a 4 minute event. that intensity is dumped all over the site of an autocross. the grass however continues to grow just off the tarmac, and the fireants just get more resilient. while we may choose to overlook or ignore our surroundings, they move onward.

just in case i have yet to make my point so far, i shall add this. nobody forces people to enter the vacant lot. we all go of our own accord.

and just like the said event, nothing happens without participation. let's say i would like to discuss the piss poor play of the NFL's Cowboys or any other football team for that matter. more than likely Ryan would be the only respondent. BTW, the Cowboys blow EVERY year. :twisted:

we bicker back and forth over the ability to narrowly miss orange cones placed with defiant angst, Corvette owners are a reviled minority, and japanese cars are quite prevalent. a hearty debate is easy to initiate.

were i to take a poll, i would guess 70% vs. 30% right leaning political affiliations among our forum posting membership. can we change the way our country is run? i doubt it. we can't purchase an awning for the bus without nearly coming to blows. and what is the "hippie factor" that negates a back-up generator?

yes, we are here to unwind and revel in our hobby. yet as a relatively small group we pretty much all know each other. sometimes we are nice to each other and sometimes we are not so nice. opinions are certainly like assholes. some people just come off as bigger ones sometimes.

i rarely post anything which really causes my blood to boil, yet my posts tend to stir the pot. anyone remember the "year-round school" debate? i certainly got my ass handed to me on that one.

i suggest that i am less the rabid dog than i am the rabbit. oddly enough some days the rabbit just goes out for a walk.

i suggest we add an irreverent forum for those that don't succumb to political correctness. i doubt the turnout will be very earth-shattering. but short of locking forums that may not meet SOP i offer this alternative.

and finally, i strongly submit that hijacking For Sale forums should be a punishable offense. this afterall is part of our public persona. we as a whole have sunk to a new low here IMO.

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

Thank you CTRL-A, CTRL-C, CTRL-V and Notepad.

:lol:

Wes Eargle · **Joined:** Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:47 am **Posts:** 3683

But seriously, this site (as I recall) stemmed from a desire to eliminate the mailing list that was tres 1994 and come into the modern age. What you get here is a mix of people that expect the old-school method of that communication and discussion and those that grab a cursory glance of 4-5 forums over a quick gulp of coffee a couple of times a day to break the workday monotony. Couple that with with the multiple interpretations of the written word, the "anonymous" nature of the intertubes, and variations in skin thickness, and there are going to be feelings hurt and private complaints made to the moderators.

Just my pair of copper coins.

Some recently discovered IBTL, how much longer before they discover kthxbye, lulz, brah, zomg, REPOST, et al?

steve remchak · **Posted:** Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:45 pm

Wes Eargle wrote:

But seriously, this site (as I recall) stemmed from a desire to eliminate the mailing list that was tres 1994 and come into the modern age. What you get here is a mix of people that expect the old-school method of that communication and discussion and those that grab a cursory glance of 4-5 forums over a quick gulp of coffee a couple of times a day to break the workday monotony. Couple that with with the multiple interpretations of the written word, the "anonymous" nature of the intertubes, and variations in skin thickness, and there are going to be feelings hurt and private complaints made to the moderators.

Just my pair of copper coins.

Some recently discovered IBTL, how much longer before they discover kthxbye, lulz, brah, zomg, REPOST, et al?

? i just ain't that smart Wes. i have no idea what you are trying to say. my point being there should a forum for those that just want an arguement to progress naturally. besides all that, why should i start a fight with a complete stranger when i can piss off somebody i know. my wife argues way better than most here. i like to think i can win one once in awhile.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:23 pm

Steve,

Thanks for your well thought out post and also let me apologize for temporarily locking your thread the other day. I still stand by my comments but I think you unfairly ended up taking the brunt of my general unhappiness with the ongoing 24/7 political aspect of our lives that was the last handful of days leading up to the election. I frankly had had it up to "here" (Imagine all 6'5" of me holding my hand up to my forehead) with any and all political discussions and you were the unfortunate recipient of my unhappiness, so you received some undeserved abuse.

Here are my comments regarding your “Vacant Lot” forum idea…

I visit a 914 forum on a daily basis and they have something pretty much what you are talking about. But they call it “The Sandbox”. It is generally the location for all off topic discussions. It generally is the home of general OT threads as well as a long running dirty jokes and dirty photo thread (one of each). Until recently, all topics were pretty much allowed except for Political and Religious (P&R) topics in that forum. General rules regarding “lets all be nice to each other” applied here as well. This was fine for years and then this year the Admins decided to experiment and opened up that forum to P&R topics.

In my opinion, there were a very small number of people who participated in the P&R, however the number of P&R threads/posts skyrocketed. I am pulling some numbers out of the air here, but let’s say about 20% of those who participated tried to discuss in an open minded way and didn’t get much into the “you people…” type of broad generalizations. About 75% were a step above that in that they quickly started shouting at each other or at the group who tried to discuss in a non aggressive way. And about 5% where so over the top that they were getting put in time out (temporary bans). This site has maybe 5+ admins and I am sure it added to their workload to watch over all of this.

The P&R topics also incensed a number of people who didn’t participate in them. Generally what happened is that you had three groups of people. First there were those who felt that really wasn’t much that couldn’t be said and frankly didn’t care who they insulted. They general response was “If you don’t like it, don’t read it”. The second group was those who could absolutely not stand the P&R talk. Especially since the most of the P&R threads were driven by a few vocal individuals that mostly fit into the “I don’t care who I piss off” category. The last group just didn’t care one way or another and was able to ignore the entire thing.

There were also two additional factors. One is that most forums have some type of link that gives you a list of all new thread or existing threads that have new activity. This is usually a “view new posts” link. It is very convenient to use to see what is new on a forum. The problem is that you can’t exclude some forums from this list. So you had people who wanted to ignore the P&R, but were getting thread titles such as “You are a moron if you vote for XXXX”. So even if you don’t read the actual posts, you have these titles in your face. The second is that during all of this, if you read the P&R threads, you started to learn things about people that you probably wished you didn’t know. It ended up with some people really loosing respect for a handful of other people. I don’t know if this is a case of “ignorance is bliss” and people are living with their heads in the sand when it comes to other people they know or what. But the harmony that existed previously was being noticeably hurt.

The end result is that the admins created a poll asking if the P&R experiment should be stopped and the answer was “yes”. It wasn’t a landslide, but a majority of those who voted said they wanted it to go back to the way it was before. So P&R is now gone just a handful of days after the election.

With all of this being say, right now there is nothing in the rules that prohibit P&R talk on the THSCC forum. My personal opinion is that it doesn’t belong here, but that is just my opinion. And as mentioned in the other thread, I would personally like to change the forum rules, but have not put much thought into exactly how that would happen (do we put it to a vote?)

Richard

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

I don't think club funds should be used to sponsor such a forum. If individuals in the club want to set up one, they can do it with their own funds, and invite the rest of us to join.

By the way, I could not find the terms "IBTL", "kthxbye", "lulz", "brah", "zomg" in my Websters. What's going on here?

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:55 am

Arthur McDonald wrote:

By the way, I could not find the terms "IBTL", "kthxbye", "lulz", "brah", "zomg" in my Websters. What's going on here?

IBTL = "In before the lock". Meaning you are getting a few last word in on a thread that is about to be locked.

kthxbye = "Ok, Thanks, Bye". A dismissive way to end a conversation with someone.

lulz = Similar to LOL or "Laugh out Loud", but used by a "troll" or someone who just wants to aggrevate you in an online thread. This is the way the troll acknowledges that he is driving you nuts and he thinks its funny.

brah = ?

zomg = emphatic "omg" or "Oh, my god!". I think it came about because people would quickly try to type OMG and use the shift key, but hit Z instead as it is next to the shift. So in their excitement, they would type zomg.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:21 pm

Richard Casto wrote:

brah = ?

Dog the Bounty Hunter speak for Brother.

As for a Vacant Lot? I vote no. I can direct you to a place if you want to discuss politics.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:16 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

Richard Casto wrote:

brah = ?

Dog the Bounty Hunter speak for Brother.

As for a Vacant Lot? I vote no. I can direct you to a place if you want to discuss politics.

Yep. Keep the d@mn politics out of THSCC. I know exactly what Ryan is thinking about...and believe me, Steve, you'll get all the political discourse there that you would ever want...and they don't ban people there very often either :-D

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:16 pm

Have they ever banned anyone? I mean, wouldn't that be like the Austrailians shipping their criminals off to another country?

Karl Shultz · **Posted:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Richard, what you described is dead-on true for the following forum, assuming I'm thinking of the right one:

Ryan Holton wrote:

As for a Vacant Lot? I vote no. I can direct you to a place if you want to discuss politics.

Would this be the Battlefield of Ten Year Olds known as "Political Playground" on one of the forums I'm on?

I go and lurk in there every now and again. There are some very large-brained people arguing endlessly, calling each other names, suggesting fiery deaths for their "friends."

Seriously, aren't there enough alternative places for people to go and pound their chests while screaming "Look at ME! I am <pick your political affiliation>, hear me ROAR!!!"

I realize I wasn't asked, but I'd really rather we didn't go down this road.

steve remchak · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:57 am

well i guess that is that. i will not petition for a free flow of ideas anymore. i thought our membership might be capable of behaving in a more civil manner than those on some other forums. especially given the lack of anonymity here.

i assume the offending forum ya'll are discussing is honda related, but i am just guessing. but to be sure it is related to an asian marque. hmnm, i wonder. :wink:

Kevin Allen · **Joined:** Thu Aug 28, 2003 6:42 pm **Posts:** 3479

Karl's reference sounds like nasioc, but there may be others out there like it.

PP is pretty entertaining at times, but not useful otherwise.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:29 am

Karl Shultz wrote:

Would this be the Battlefield of Ten Year Olds known as "Political Playground" on one of the forums I'm on?

I go and lurk in there every now and again. There are some very large-brained people arguing endlessly, calling each other names, suggesting fiery deaths for their "friends."

It has gotten better as of late.

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:59 am

steve remchak wrote:

well i guess that is that. i will not petition for a free flow of ideas anymore. i thought our membership might be capable of behaving in a more civil manner than those on some other forums. especially given the lack of anonymity here.

I think that people don't join THSCC to talk politics, thus the reason for your less than enthusiastic support. - AB

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