Massa delcared Belgian GP winner 3 hours after the race?

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

Anybody else think this decision is kinda bs?

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2008/9/8334.html

Hamilton DID let him back in front after gaining the advantage. Am I missing something here? What add'l benefit did he gain? He wasn't that far back before the turn, so its not like he gained extra time on Kimi or anything?

McLaren's appeal:

"We looked at all our data and also made it available to the FIA stewards," said the team. "It showed that, having lifted, Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start-finish line. Having passed the lead back to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car, moving across and behind Kimi to the right-hand line and then out-braked him into the hairpin. Based on this data, we have no option other than to register our intention to appeal."

MarcusMcRae · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:15 pm

My fricken DVR quit recording with 10 laps to go. I am all for anything that makes Hamilton's life more difficult. :wink:

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:18 pm

He came back on the track and then let him by but not before brake checking him to kill his momentum. I was yelling at the tv when he did it that.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:38 pm

RobLupella wrote:

He came back on the track and then let him by but not before brake checking him to kill his momentum. I was yelling at the tv when he did it that.

I watched it at least twice and did not see what appeared to be brake checking. Also, the announcers didn't even hint at brake checking. To me it looked like Kimi was off to one side (driver's right) when Hamilton slowed and then tucked in inches behind Kimi and then moved to driver's right and simply braked deeper into the corner. Given that it was a fairly decent pass by Hamilton when Kimi forced him off the road entering the corner it just looked like top level racing.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:08 pm

Amazing 2 laps.

F1 is REALLY interesting when it starts to rain

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:26 pm

I just watched another replay. Hamilton was next to Kimi on Kimi's left with a car width between them when he slowed to let Kimi regain the lead. Hamilton then crossed over behind Kimi to Kimi's right. Where did you see brake checking given it is hard to do from the side or the rear?

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:35 pm

Last two laps were incredible. There was no brake checking. :roll:

It was hard racing and exactly what F1 needs more of. And yet, they screw it up by a post race yanking of the win.

Hamilton clearly was faster at that point and all over Kimi like a cheap suit. While it was a bold move, the pass attempt at the chicane didn’t work. So he could have either (a) crashed into Kimi (b) short cut the chicane. He picked the later which happens all of the time. Especially now that they have paved so much of the run off area exactly so that they can run off and re-enter the race. Ok, so now he is in front of Kimi and gained a position by the short cut. Everyone knows that you can’t do this, so he slows and lets Kimi in front. After Kimi is past, he is back on the gas. He was already all over Kimi prior to this. So no advantage was gained. Actually Kimi looked to be in serious trouble anyhow with Lewis making up so much ground so quickly. It was a total non-issue for me. Lewis was the better man today.

RobLupella · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:02 pm

DickRasmussen wrote:

I just watched another replay. Hamilton was next to Kimi on Kimi's left with a car width between them when he slowed to let Kimi regain the lead. Hamilton then crossed over behind Kimi to Kimi's right. Where did you see brake checking given it is hard to do from the side or the rear?

I meant to say "what looked like a brake check" It may have been Kimi losing momentum so fast to let Lewis back around. It was a bit of a nit-picky penalty, but I'm with Marcus Make Lewis' life more difficult
:twisted:

BriceJohnson · **Joined:** Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:33 am **Posts:** 2230

yeah, not sure where the brake checking accusation comes from, read the data cited by Mclaren. Lewis was going 6 km/h slower than Kimi @ the start finish line. I call shenanigans.

DickRasmussen · **Posted:** Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:41 pm

I have nothing against talent so I see no reason to make Lewis's life more difficult :lol:

I don't understand why Kimi has been relatively slow compared to Massa recently. Did Massa gain a bunch of talent (not that he has a shortage) or is/was something physically wrong with Kimi? As fast as he was today at Spa, it certainly wasn't a loss of balls.

CosbyWood · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:35 am

I didn't watch the last lap.5 once Kimi got up close and personal with the wall. :cry:

What I saw was Lewis getting faster near the end and gaining on Kimi then attempting a pass and was blocked, that block caused him to go off the line, but he put himself right back where he was supposed to and then proceeded to blow right by Kimi anyway. :shock:

I'm not a Lewis fan by far. He's too much of a crying little pansy boy for me. But he can drive. If he were to check his attitude, I think I might could like him as a driver. Otherwise, go Kimi!

clinehall · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:51 am

It is kind of a double edged sword. They have those paved run off areas that allow the cars to stay in the race but it then can be considered an advantage if they use it. IMHO Kimi pushed him out to the edge, Hamilton did not attempt the move to get an advantage. Let them race! It certainly did not cause Kimi to smack the wall.

I think FI is just scarred of Ferrari and what could happen if they pulled out for even a season. RE: 100 million fine from last year.

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:30 am

I think that what complicated things are that Kimi was apparently having serious grip issues when compared to Lewis at that moment. Lewis was taking 3-5/10th of a second per lap from Kimi and then all of a sudden “Pow” he is right on top of him. I don’t know if Kimi was having tire issues or it maybe if Kimi’s setup was just not able to deal with the wet track in that section as well as Lewis was.

So anyhow, just as Lewis re-entered the track after the short cut of Bus Stop chicane, you can see Kimi accelerating out of the corner. You can see that while Kimi is on the line, he is struggling to get moving as the rear of the car steps out at least once. Lewis is not going to just come to a complete stop and is moving forward, but at the same time trying to hold back to allow Kimi to pass him. And as you can see that by the time they are at the start finish line (between Bus Stop and La Source) Kimi is moving faster than Lewis as he has completed the pass to take back the position. As they approach La Source (next turn) they never really are in a line behind each other (Kimi starts on the inside with Lewis on the outside and then Kimi dives across in front of Lewis to the take the outside and Lewis dives back to the inside) so I don’t see how he got some type of tow in the run up to La Source. It just looks like to me that Lewis was able to put the power down after he let Kimi pass and Kimi was not able to do the same. So Lewis was able to get a run on him into La Source. So now Kimi is on the outside going into La Source and on the racing line, but again he looks to be having grip issue and brakes early. Lewis brakes later off line and makes the turn with no drama.

This is exactly the type of thing you see often in race in which a faster car is passing a backmarker. The faster car is held up, may try an impatient pass and overshoot a chicane, the faster car lets the slower car back in front and then very quickly re-passes. You barely get a comment from the commentators when this happens and there is no penalty because the passing car gives the position back to the slower car. The reason this is a non-issue when it happens is because the speed differential is so high between the two cars. I am not saying Ferrari is a backmarker at all, but I am saying that at this late stage in the race, things were going horrible wrong with Kimi’s ability to keep race pace. He was much slower than Lewis during this scuffle. If anything Lewis should have been more patient to avoid this entire mess, but as Dave Despain said last night “The idea is to pass people” when someone suggested that Lewis should have just followed Kimi around. So I can’t fault Lewis for being a hard racer.

What is interesting is that I have read that there is no appeal process for drive through penalties. So McLaren may have no choice but to suck it up and deal with it.

Ryan Holton · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:49 am

The FIA realized just how great Massa is and decided he really is the winner. He should be the winner at all the races

:lol:

clinehall · **Posted:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:01 pm

Ryan Holton wrote:

The FIA realized just how great Massa is and decided he really is the winner. He should be the winner at all the races

:lol:

I think Ryan has a crush :twisted:

THSCC Forums

Massa delcared Belgian GP winner 3 hours after the race?

Who is online