THSCC Forums

I predicted last year than we would see more HiPro vehicles coming to the Pontiac lineup, GM wants to restablish the Tin Indian as the performance brand as it was in the 60's.
This fall the G8 GXP will appear in the showrooms as the flagship in the performance lineup. Helping that designation will be a 6.2L LS3 engine with just over 400 HP, 6 speed stick or automatic. A very HOT 4 dr sedan!
The new surprise is the rebirth of the sedan-pickup (i.e. El Camino, Ranchero) or Ute as the Ausies call them. Still without a model name, it is being refered to as the G8 Sports truck. Powered by a 6.0L V8 and 6 speed automatic, it will be trimmed out with all the whistles and bells of the current G8 GT. Look for the G8 ST (or whatever they call it by then) to hit the showrooms as a midyear 09 offering.

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

The G8 still won't sell great because of the styling, IMHO. Pontiac's marketing is still horrible, too.

The "ute" or whatever is more silliness, IMHO. It's another SSR with better performance, but it still won't e anything special in terms of performance and they just won't sell many. I doubt they intend to sell many, so I'm not really sure what the real point is.

Pontiac itself might be doing some things right, but as a whole I still don't understand GM. Too many brands with too many competing products.

I suppose if Grand Am changes its name to "NASCAR Road Racing" (which I've heard is in the works), the fact that the GXP.R is so good in GT is obviously a good thing for Pontiac. It'll be interesting to see if they can be that good long enough to matter, though, as it'll take a few more years before "NASCAR Road Racing" will really start to take off...and even if it does, you can bet GM will want the Corvette to be the car to have, not the GXP.R. *shrug*


--Donnie

Shhh! Don't tell Pontiac that the G8 isn't selling. Don't know where they are going then, because the dealers can't keep them in stock. Someone who lives in a glass house (or owns a Subi STi...) maybe shouldn't throw so many rocks at Pontiac's styling?

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SPIN or WIN!
there's no glory for going slow.

Wow. That got personal really quick.

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Richard Casto
1972 Porsche 914
2013 Honda Fit Sport
2015 Honda Fit EX
http://motorsport.zyyz.com
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.

And the surprise is what? Chuck making a post and Donnie or Aaron jumping in and pissing on it? Were you expecting something new this year...

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http://www.greywinds.com

Graham, seriously, did I do something wrong? I didn't say anything personal and didn't really attack anything but GM. I just don't see Pontiac's or GM's game plan to make a big move in the car world. They're making some okay cars, and the GM Performance division is doing some REALLY great things with what they are being given. But if Pontiac wants a "flagship", the Solstice should be it (even though I admit *I* don't care for its styling). Why they need to add some crazy Ranchero-wannabe makes no sense to me, unless it is to be a "flagship" type product. This would be about the worst choice I can imagine, and one that flies in the face of what they should have learned about the SSR. *shrug* An LS3 in the Solstice? Heck, I'd consider one of those even though I don't like the looks!

And if Chuck wants to get personal by attacking the STi, I really don't care. I don't think they're great looking, either. Perhaps that's why Subaru remains a third tier manufacturer, too. Which is where GM is heading, it would seem...

Last time I checked, this is The Lounge, and everyone is free to comment on whatever we want here. Especially when kept civil, which I've certainly done. I mean should I actively avoid any topic he posts for some reason?


--Donnie

Hey, just imagine owning GM stock. My database only goes back to 1968 for stocks, and in January 1968 GM was trading between $33 and $36. It closed Friday at $17.60. Buy and hold for 40 years gets you a 50% loss of equity. The 40 year low in 1974 is $12.37. I would not be surpised to see it taken out and perhaps soon. What a trade it would have been the last 40 years to be short GM and long an equal amount of (BMW + Toyota).

It gets worse for those that bought into the squeeze in Apr 2000 where it got to $94.

Ford wins over the past 40 years by a huge factor by the way, even if it is down to only $6.xx from the high 30's in the late 90's. That is still up by almost 400% since 1968 or about an 8x performance vs GM.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

There was a 2:1 split in '89. They also started handing out quarterly dividend checks in '87.

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In need of car.

Well, there was at least a stock split in 1989, and may be others if you go back farther.

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2003 Subaru WRX Sportwagon = daily driver/boost and booster seats
2000 BMW 540iT = wife's kid hauler
2012 Toyota Highlander = the boring reliable vehicle

All the data I referred to is split adjusted.

You did get some spinoffs along the way: Raytheon out of GM-H which is just above where it was spun off now after a huge decline and comeback; also you got some Delphi shares which have fallen all the way to 0.10 each and are trading OTC pink sheets.

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Current stable:
2019 BMW M2 Competition slicktop 6MT
2011 BMW M3 sedan slicktop 6MT
2007 BMW 328i wagon (slushbox for now)
1975 CanAm 125MX2

X 2

With gas at $4/gal and some say $5 by the end of the year. How many folks are gonna be lining up for these gas hogs?

I think the big three are in for a new round of being owned by Japan. The truck cash cow is dead.

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02 Focus SVT
STF 9

I for one am glad to see that someone (Lutz?) has woken up the engineering staff at GM and gotten them to build some cars people might actually want. Solstice, CTS, heck even the new Malibu. I'd rock a CTS for sure.



This is the one I think is going to tank. All the downsides of a pickup (seats two, guzzles gas), with not many of the upsides either. Like a fast Subaru Brat.

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Karl S.
2014 Baby, 2014 House, 2013 Ford Focus ST, 2013 BMW 328i, 1994 Mercedes E320
(Insert passive aggressive signature line here)

The CTS and CTS-V are the main reasons I don't see why Pontiac is bothering with the higher performance G8. Or, should I say, I wonder why GM bothers keeping Pontiac as a brand at all. *shrug* Seems like every Pontiac model has a direct competitor somewhere else within GM, and most of the counterparts are better (the Solstice maybe not, but even then the Sky looks better than the Solstice and there's certainly nothing stopping GM from killing the Solstice and offering ZOK and GXP Sky's).

The funny thing is the Vibe is the only Pontiac that has good sales potential for GM as a whole (if Pontiac had decent marketing at all), and that's just because it's really a Toyota Matrix.


--Donnie

With a tarmac setup...

Jim

I guess it wouldn't be proper if I didn't comment. The G8 is nothing more than GTO with 4 doors. How well did the GTO sell? So well that they scrapped after 3 years (2006 was the last year) and sold them well below invoice. IIRC, Les could have bought his for the mid 20's brand new when the MSRP was $35k. He did the smart thing and lease it because unloading one was a bit of a bloodbath.

Hell, the Crossfire is no different with Chrysler, but it's likely built better than most Dodge/Chrysler products considering its parts are Mercedes. Bryan got his brand new one in the high $18's for a car that had a sticker of $30.5k. The difference here is Chrysler won't make that mistake again.

Ford is the only one of the big 3 that seems to be "getting it". There cars don't compete with each other nearly as much and it's easy to understand what they brands stand for. You want performance/economy -> Ford, you want mid-range luxury -> Mercury, you want luxury -> Lincoln. This could be why Ford turned a profit in 1Q08. Now, with gas prices skyrocketing, it will likely be the last profit turned by any of the big 3 in 2008, but I bet Ford will make out better through this lean time than any of the others. - AB

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'14 Toyota Sequoia Platinum 4WD
Super Westerfield Bros - '93 Integra - LeChump Du Jour
STX 93 - Scion FR-S