BMW removes the Dipsticks

Aaron Buckley · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:43 am

David Spratte wrote:

This is what BMW/MINI do. I think BMW has been at this game for a while.

Volvo has this on my wagon and my '91 BMW also had it. I think there are some sensors that guage some information, but more likely there is a run time algorithm that truly controls it.

What I do remember with the BMW, that when the Service I or II came up, it meant 'bend over and expect no lube' when you took it to the dealer. - AB

jimpastorius · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:55 am

Richard Casto wrote:

I read something in the paper today (Car Guys column in the automotive section of N&O) about how Honda (maybe others as well) is providing an indication as to when to change you oil. But it is not based upon just mileage alone, but I guess a number of factors including what I assume would be hours of operation and maybe even driving style (i.e. % of time spent at high/low RPM, engine temp, etc.).

That sounds like a smart idea to me and while not as good as oil testing, it is probably better than a set mileage or number of months.

My Chevy truck has this feature. And it does vary anywhere from 5,000 miles to 6,500 miles when it comes on.

TomFreeman · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:20 pm

My E46 has it, and the start of the OCI is 15K miles, and it works down from there based on driving style. Whenever you start the car, the display flashes the miles to oil change value for a few seconds. I've driven somewhere around 12K-13K miles for the last 2 changes, and each time it still had a couple thousand miles left on the display. I'm using full synth and BMW filters, and the car seems to be pretty happy at 102K miles.

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

On the C5 Corvette there is an Oil Life system with an elaborate calculation based on several parameters. It displays in the IC in digital format as a % remaining. You can see the difference between daily driving and after a track weekend. Once it hits 10% or so you get a warning. At 0% you get reminded every time you start the car and you have to reset it from the display to see any other info. The systems works well. That came out in 97 and was updated in 01 amongst other code changes in the computer.

The C5 still has a real dipstick, but it does have a low oil sensor.

Chuck Branscomb · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:45 pm

David Spratte wrote:

This is what BMW/MINI do. I think BMW has been at this game for a while.

I think BMW introduced their system on the E32 (1988 7-series) that looks at cold starts (and temp of start), how long it is run/coolant temp, mileage, etc...

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:34 pm

Chuck Branscomb wrote:

David Spratte wrote:

This is what BMW/MINI do. I think BMW has been at this game for a while.

I think BMW introduced their system on the E32 (1988 7-series) that looks at cold starts (and temp of start), how long it is run/coolant temp, mileage, etc...

It must just be taking time before this trickled down to the bottom of the Honda line (the article I saw this in was discussing the Honda Fit)

Arthur McDonald · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:54 am **Posts:** 2052

DickRasmussen wrote:

The oil pressure "gauges" on our 97 and 01 Mustangs are really just idot lights which happen to look like a gauge. The gauge goes to one set position when the engine is running. There is a voltage guage (no ammeter).

Given that many new cars are now "drive by wire" why not "oil level by wire"? :roll:

Sure hope those electronic dipsticks are more accurate than most guages! My high mileage cars certainly need the oil level monitored!

Now that I think of it, those two gauges on my new car don't do much, but of course I can't read them while driving since they're so small and tucked away. I do take comfort in the knowledge that they look like gauges. Sometimes I go wild and push the button that probably doesn't turn off the traction control. Mostly I fiddle with the stereo controls.

Marty Howard · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:48 am

All this really had me wondering so I made a call to an old collegue last night. This is strickly non-official, but he said that BMW is considering moving from being an auto retailer to a auto service provider. What that means is they want almost all of their vehicles to be company owned and leased, not sold. That provides continual and long term income on each vehicle. They will control not only the vehicle value, but all maintenance contracts for the entire life of the vehicle. Only selling it after it has returned no less than 5 years of profit. Not too bad of a plan on their part.

David Spratte · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:31 am

Aaron Buckley wrote:

What I do remember with the BMW, that when the Service I or II came up, it meant 'bend over and expect no lube' when you took it to the dealer. - AB

Service included while under warranty. Which reminds me, I need to put my OEM pads back on the car. . . .

Richard Casto · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:52 am

Marty Howard wrote:

All this really had me wondering so I made a call to an old collegue last night. This is strickly non-official, but he said that BMW is considering moving from being an auto retailer to a auto service provider. What that means is they want almost all of their vehicles to be company owned and leased, not sold. That provides continual and long term income on each vehicle. They will control not only the vehicle value, but all maintenance contracts for the entire life of the vehicle. Only selling it after it has returned no less than 5 years of profit. Not too bad of a plan on their part.

I don't know exactly what BMW is wanting to do, but I have read about how back in the late 70's (maybe early 80's) about how Porsche wanted to radically change their relationship with thier dealers. I think it was to move more toward a European model in which IIRC it consisted of more of like a super dealership that was owned by Porsche. They didn't consult their existing dealership network and they revolted. Ultimatly I think it may have gone to court and the plan was cancelled. Basically it was screwing with how dealerships made their money. Hopefully BMW is not going to make the same mistake.

David Teague · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:53 am

My Parents new 530i does not have a dipstick, howver you can use the "i-drive" thing and it will tell you how much oil is in the engine in quarts.

Todd Breakey · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:54 am

You can, but then you have to use that damn I drive.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:11 am

Graham Jagger wrote:

On the C5 Corvette there is an Oil Life system with an elaborate calculation based on several parameters.

I'd like to know how that works. What parameters does it use? Temp, mileage, viscosity?

Graham Jagger wrote:

The C5 still has a real dipstick, but it does have a low oil sensor.

Like Dick said, the Mustang oil pressure gauge (same in the Explorer) is a idiot light with a needle which is worse. The 96-up Miata has the same thing, but must people who know better replace it with the gauge and sender from the pre 96 models. I did the swap to the real OPG pretty quick when we bought our '96 Miata.

I learned (the hard way of course) that the factory sensors can get you into trouble real quick.

After my original 2.4L in the Z-24 spun a bearing (due to being 2 quarts low on oil) I learned how important real gauges can be. After getting a new engine (well used, but new to me 19K miles) I installed an oil pressure gauge. After the engine woes I got an OEM FSM which says the low oil pressure light comes on at get this . . 2 PSI!!!!! Why even bother? If the oil pressure gets that low the light may as well have text that reads "Time to buy a new engine, you idiot".

Later I discovered that at track speeds my oil pressure would drop drastically (losing 20 PSI sometimes) due to loss of viscosity at high temps. How hot was the oil? Without a gauge I didn't know so I installed one. At the next track event (ambient temps in the 40s) the oil temp gauge was pegged at 250 so it was hotter than that. That gauge told me it was time for an oil cooler. After adding the oil cooler my oil temps now max at 235F even with ambient temps in the 90s and the pressure loss is about 10-15 PSI less.

Autometer FTW!

Graham Jagger · **Joined:** Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:53 am **Posts:** 1718

Vincent Keene wrote:

I'd like to know how that works. What parameters does it use? Temp, mileage, viscosity?

It is not a published formula. One of the guys over on CF is a retired GM engineer that worked on the system. He said they put major effort into it and is not just engine cycles and/or runtime. Way more than that. I've run it down to about 10% or so, changed oil, and sent the sample out to Blackstone. Report came back saying I could have gone more and there were no deposits in the engine to be concerned about. That was running Royal Purple 5w-30. It had a couple of track weekends and the rest daily driving on it. I now have almost 40K on the car and reports look good.

Vincent Keene wrote:

I learned (the hard way of course) that the factory sensors can get you into trouble real quick.

After my original 2.4L in the Z-24 spun a bearing (due to being 2 quarts low on oil) I learned how important real gauges can be. After getting a new engine (well used, but new to me 19K miles) I installed an oil pressure gauge. After the engine woes I got an OEM FSM which says the low oil pressure light comes on at get this . . 2 PSI!!!!! Why even bother? If the oil pressure gets that low the light may as well have text that reads "Time to buy a new engine, you idiot".

Later I discovered that at track speeds my oil pressure would drop drastically (losing 20 PSI sometimes) due to loss of viscosity at high temps. How hot was the oil? Without a gauge I didn't know so I installed one. At the next track event (ambient temps in the 40s) the oil temp gauge was pegged at 250 so it was hotter than that. That gauge told me it was time for an oil cooler. After adding the oil cooler my oil temps now max at 235F even with ambient temps in the 90s and the pressure loss is about 10-15 PSI less.

Autometer FTW!

A couple of things. On the C5 it has the analog guages for fuel, ammeter, oil pressure, coolant temp. They aren't always the most accurate. The nice thing is the IC displays in digital and the manual says to refer to it for the most accurate info. It has oil pressure and oil temp. I leave it on oil temp on track and use the analog gauges for oil pressure and coolant temp.

After a few track events I noticed as I was driving harder and using 3rd gear more. My oil temp down at Roebling hit 275 mid-session. I ran a few laps in 4th and took it easy. Oil pressure still looked good but was lower. I only use 5w-30 regardless of track/street. So like you, I installed an oil cooler. Now I'm at 235 and nice stable oil pressure. It just takes a bit longer to warm it up before you got out on track. GM set the high oil temp at 320 before the computer starts lighting up the displays. Way too hot! They set the high coolant temp value in the computer too high also. I have them all reprogrammed including the cooling fan on temps.

Since the Vette is also a test bed for GM. Any of the things that work really well and can be passed down the rest of the vehicle lineup does. As long as it isn't a big cost hit. So adding the code to the computer to use the C5 calculations can be done on the rest of the line. At least the mid to higher end cars. It takes a while though.

Vincent Keene · **Posted:** Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:46 pm

Graham Jagger wrote:

So like you, I installed an oil cooler. Now I'm at 235 and nice stable oil pressure. It just takes a bit longer to warm it up before you got out on track.

I was having that problem too so I installed a oil temp thermostat in-line with the oil cooler. It's designed to never totally close, but doesn't fully open until around 190F. The oil t-stat really helps in the winter months with getting the oil up to temp.

THSCC Forums

BMW removes the Dipsticks

Who is online